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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Whitey" data-source="post: 1385057" data-attributes="member: 15994">Back to what the original poster was asking for.  They wanted to know how to defeat the 'lady' as such a question was raised on another thread.  It can be done.  Much like overcoming any other walking handwipe, something that Always Wins Forever, just find something else that Always Wins Forever and set it in opposition.  Whitey proposed some of these earlier - here's another batch. Get a whole pile of ether scarabs (from MM2) and alarm or destroy enough of them that they open a planar rift big enough to encompass Her Royal Pincushion, or the whole of Sigil, and dump that on another plane, where some other deific figure gets to make up rules and Always Wins Forever.  Since it's a rip, specifically not a gate, it's unlikely this effect could be just waved away.Have an earth elemental weird (also MM2) to predict her demise.'A weird can divine information that can change the very course of history. It has its finger on the pulse of fate and knows exactly where possible courses of action might lead. <snip> A weird's warning and advice are never wrong.' It's never wrong.  It Always Wins Forever, too.And the best one - or the one best applicable to an actual game.  Say a chipper adventurer shows up, and just isn't grovelling like he/she should.  As the lady starts that whole maze/flay/0wnz0r bit, our intrepid hero/heroine smiles and says "Don't think so, pumpkin."  Turns out they'd earlier drawn the Fates from a deck of many things.  There's no trump to that card.  From the SRD:  Fate itself is on the bearer's side.  This adventurer's done what even the gods could not.  With that the lady is overthrown, or at least the original poster's goal is accomplished, and there was much wailing and gnashing from the fanboys.  Sure, the adventurer might not Always Win Forever, but to have the setting and its 'canon' serve the interests of the gaming group and not vice versa, there's always a way.</blockquote>

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