D&D 5E Plate Mail and hobgoblins

[aramis erak]

If the PC is the relative same size of the hobgoblin, there is no reason why they couldn't wear the plate mail, IMO

Different limb proportions would render it unwearable. As would different body length to width. And different muscle distribution.

EG: Conan's armor won't work for Porthos, despite being the same height and weight... Porthos carries his in belly fat, Conan in much lean muscle. And Conan could probably wear Porthos' armor, but it wouldn't work as well because it would swing like a bell.

 

[Rune]

What I would do is put that hobgoblin warlord's plate mail "front and center" in that encounter. The lore about hobgoblins say "Organized and disciplined, they take exceptional care of their weapons, armor, and personal possessions." The image of the warlord on page 187 shows the hobgoblin in some badass samurai-esque get-up.

When the fighter and paladin lay eyes upon this warrior, I'd describe the armor in a tantalizing fashion - its superior craftsmanship, its fearsome look, a work of art as much as protection for one's body. Once they're salivating over it and fighting over who gets to claim it when the battle is over, I lay the challenge down:

Because of the way this hobgoblin relies upon his armor to keep himself alive while he fights fearlessly (even recklessly at times), each time he takes 10 or more damage from an attack, the armor requires 150 gp of repair to be able to fit either of the characters.

Then kick off the fight and see what the players do to win the day while minimizing damage to the armor. This will probably lead to some clever actions on the part of the players to balance out victory and cost and those are the sorts of meaningful decisions I like to have in my games.

I run a houserule that would work very well with this; I let players choose to take damage on their armor/shield/weapon instead of taking the damage themselves. Generally, this would be a last-ditch defense, since materials have relatively low hp. If the hobgoblin were to do this with its plate armor, it would almost certainly need to be repaired before it could be used.

To the OP, though, I gotta ask? Why is it okay for such a low CR creature to be walking around with platemail in your world, but not a level 5 character? If it's so hard to come by, where did the hobgoblin get it?

 

[iserith]

I run a houserule that would work very well with this; I let players choose to take damage on their armor/shield/weapon instead of taking the damage themselves. Generally, this would be a last-ditch defense, since materials have relatively low hp. If the hobgoblin were to do this with its plate armor, it would almost certainly need to be repaired before it could be used.

To the OP, though, I gotta ask? Why is it okay for such a low CR creature to be walking around with platemail in your world, but not a level 5 character? If it's so hard to come by, where did the hobgoblin get it?

Just thinking about my idea again, you could flip the script a bit and have it where it costs 150 gp (or some other value) every time the PCs miss the AC with an attack roll (weapon attacks only). The idea being that the armor is taking the hit.

I imagine you'd be seeing the players busting out Help actions, Inspiration, bless spells (and other spells in general), Bardic Inspiration, knocking prone or trying to apply other conditions for advantage, plus trying to get the warlord to drop his shield to avoid damaging the armor too much. A +6 attack bonus has a 35% chance of hitting AC 20, 58% with advantage, 70% with advantage once relieved of his shield. Could be fun to see what they do.

 

[Gnarl45]

[MENTION=79899]Superking[/MENTION]: Why not just give them the armor and deduct the cost from whatever treasure you had planned? But if you it really really bothers you and you think that a +1 bonus to AC is going to wreck your game, you can always give the hobo a chainmail and come up with a BS monster feature to increase its AC by 2.

 

[Jack99]

At level 5, they still don't have plate? Wow, I thought I was a skinflint DM.

I'd allow them to take it to an armorsmith and have it refitted for, say, 20% of the base cost. That way they still have to hunt up an NPC and lay out some coin before they can use it, and you establish a precedent that monster gear is not necessarily usable by PCs, but they don't feel cheated.

Or you could make it magical armor that requires a quest of some sort before it will let you wear it without burning you.

No one at my games has plate mail by level 5 either. It's expensive. No one has come close to getting at least 1,500gp per share by level 5. I don't think that's all that unusual in 5e. Heck, look at the 5e adventures so far. This isn't older D&D, especially Basic where you could buy plate mail as a 1st level PC

"Plate mail" in Basic/AD&D is more akin to Half Plate in 3e and 5e than "Full plate"/"Plate.".

Paladin in my campaign didn't get it until level 10, when they killed their first dragon, who "happened" to have one in it's hoard.

 

[fjw70]

I definitely prefer the first suggestion to the second. The first makes sense in that they can take the plate, but (repairs and) refitting could come to a significant portion of the base price if you don't want your PCs to use it right away. The second is also perfectly valid, but a little heavy-handed unless there have been indications that the hobgobs have allied with dark forces that would care enough to enchant the plate.

Yep my suggestion was meant to be heavy handed. Personally I would just let them have the plate.

 

[Superking]

Wow. Thanks for the great ideas. Way more than expected. I am the skinflint old school DM that wants Plate Armor to be a big deal! The running joke is when I DM, that the 'story' is the treasure rather than any monetary or gold reward.... Yes, I am that guy.

Seriously though, these are some great ideas. What I will probably do is if they succeed on the encounter make it usable right away but, ill fitted and work as an equivalent of splint until suitable modifications can be made. Those modifications and customizations will about 300GP plus some time.

I also really enjoyed the thoughts about making it a big deal through emphasis on the battle and the hobgoblins martial prowess. Something that went from a small DM dilemma will hopefully turn into an epic battle with the plate being one of the main prizes. That cinched it for me.

Thanks!

 

[Superking]

RUNE: The Hobgoblin warlord is a CR6, so not really low level.

 

[Warbringer]

Just give the hobgoblin the AC bump you want, without him wearing plate if you want to keep it out of the party's hands.

Maybe the hobgoblin is deformed, or has infernal heritage.

Either way, don't forget to change the challenge rating for higher AC.

 

[Rune]

My question is still relevant, though. How did the Hobgoblin warlord come by the armor? If it's that big a deal for the PCs (the story is the treasure), it should also be for the hobgoblin. What is the story?


(Also, I empathize--I tend to run spartan campaigns, as well. 5e is a lot more forgiving of this than the last two editions.)

 

[Superking]

Just off the cuff

The hobgoblin Warlord known as Thago, earned his plate armor at a young age after defeating a rival warlord named Ru-tach. His victory on the field of battle marked the beginning of Thago's rise to power and by donning the armor, earned the respect he needed to command his own legion of hobgoblin warriors.

 

[iserith]

The warlord claimed the armor after slaying an adventurer of minor renown years prior. Etched into the inside of the breast plate is a map and strange runes that comprise a cipher. When decoded, it reveals the location of the ruins of a mysterious lost civilization.

 

[Derren]

Why is plate armor now so special as if they were magic items?
Those things were mass produced.

 

[Warbringer]

Just off the cuff

The hobgoblin Warlord known as Thago, earned his plate armor at a young age after defeating a rival warlord named Ru-tach. His victory on the field of battle marked the beginning of Thago's rise to power and by donning the armor, earned the respect he needed to command his own legion of hobgoblin warriors.

Then by definition the party can claim the plate as booty

 

[Sacrosanct]

Different limb proportions would render it unwearable. As would different body length to width. And different muscle distribution.

EG: Conan's armor won't work for Porthos, despite being the same height and weight... Porthos carries his in belly fat, Conan in much lean muscle. And Conan could probably wear Porthos' armor, but it wouldn't work as well because it would swing like a bell.

Curious. So can I assume in your games that no PC can ever wear plate mail they find during an adventure without having it modified by a blacksmith then, since the odds of two people being the exact same build are pretty darn improbable?

 

[Prism]

I also think a few posters are being a bit harsh on the poor hobgoblin warlord. It says in the hobgoblin entry that they look after their weapons and armour very well. A hobgoblin warlord is the pinnacle of his kind and leads an entire legion into battle. In games terms he is 13HD and gets 3 attacks a round with a big damage boost. If you are going to find an opponent wearing plate mail its probably him and if you defeat him you probably deserve it, considering you either fought (or sneaked) though a legion of hobgoblins to get to him.

I'd go with the cost to refit option

Btw the knight also wears plate and is only cr3

 

[Beleriphon]

Curious. So can I assume in your games that no PC can ever wear plate mail they find during an adventure without having it modified by a blacksmith then, since the odds of two people being the exact same build are pretty darn improbable?

I don't know. Two knights of similar height, weight and age are probably pretty similar to each other in build. If you look at most professional atheletes that play the same sport they tend to have pretty similar body types if they're the same height and weight. I'm pretty sure that Michael Jordan and any other basketball player of the same height and weight would be able to wear each other's tailored suits without too much trouble or discomfort.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Either way, don't forget to change the challenge rating for higher AC.

Per DMG guidelines, you can assign any AC that makes sense without affecting CR at all. That's why hobgoblins have AC 18 at CR 1/4.

 

[Warbringer]

Per DMG guidelines, you can assign any AC that makes sense without affecting CR at all. That's why hobgoblins have AC 18 at CR 1/4.

Page 274 suggests increasing the CR by 1 for every 2 points defense higher than the monster stat table suggests for its hit points.

As plate is +2 I'd shift the CR to 1.

Now if this guy is already a Warlord CR 6, then he indeed is already is assumed to have plate and shield

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't know. Two knights of similar height, weight and age are probably pretty similar to each other in build. If you look at most professional atheletes that play the same sport they tend to have pretty similar body types if they're the same height and weight. I'm pretty sure that Michael Jordan and any other basketball player of the same height and weight would be able to wear each other's tailored suits without too much trouble or discomfort.

I agree with you. I was just asking for clarification because he said the PC wouldn't be able to use hobgoblin armor, and even two adult humans wouldn't be able to use each others unless it was tailored for them. So I was asking if he had that limit all the time. I.e., no plate mail found would be useable unless it was tailored.