Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- individual adventure modules! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed to plug in to your game.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2703038" data-attributes="member: 5777">hmm.. compare Bane (magical beasts).it is +1 and works on nearly everything on the summon list plus it works on a bunch of other stuff.It gives +2 to hit and +2d6+2 damage. It could even make the weapon able to penetrate epic DR in the proper circumstance.With a high level fighter type they would go from:(base weapon damage + standard bonuses)*chance to hit*(1+critmultiplier*crit chance)to something like(base weapon damage + standard bonuses + 2d6 +2)*(chance to hit +10%)*(1+critmultiplier*crit chance)or, with Desorber(base weapon damage + standard bonuses)*chance to hit*crit multiplierAssuming that 2d6 is 7 and setting the bane equation equal to the equation for Desorber we get: (D = weapon damage + other normal bonuses which multiply on a crit, C = chance to hit in decimal, R = chance to crit in decimal, M = multiplier of weapon being used)D = [9(C+0.1)+9(C+0.1)RM]/[CM-(C+0.1)-(C+0.1)RM]So, if we have, say, M = 4, C = 0.5, R = 0.05 (heavy pick d6 or scythe 2d4)D = 5.0625Which means that if the weapon damage + other normal bonuses which multiply on a crit totaling greater than 5.06 Desorber will be better than bane. Less than this and bane is better.If, instead, we have M = 2, C = 0.5, R = 0.1 (longsword d8, shortsword d6, greatsword 2d6)D = 23.1429Or, for the crit junkies, M = 2, C = 0.5, R = 0.15D = 31.9091So if you have average damage greater than this with just weapon damage and other normal bonuses which multiply on a crit then Desorber is better, less than and bane is better.Increasing the chance to hit lowers these numbers somewhat (until gaining to hit no longer gives any benefit where D = 3.8571 for the M = 4, R = 0.05, and D = 13.5 for M = 2, R = 0.1, and D = 16.7413 for M = 2, R = 0.15).Lowering the chance to hit increases these numbers until the other end of the spectrum is hit where again they plummit because chance to hit doesnt matter.Since a full attack usually goes through most of these ranges I would imagine that the 50% line above tends to hold true overall.If you have keen or improved crit then the bane will improve while desorber will not. If you have other noncrit effected damage then it will give slightly more average damage to bane.Burst type weapons will add more damage on the desorber weapon, although this type of enchantment is generally useless enough that I have ignored it here.This would mean that for lower damage dealing characters and/or those useing lower multiplier weapons bane would tend to be stronger since it not only increases your damage but also ups your chance to hit.It is true that in a nonprimarily psionic game dissipater is pretty weak, likely it is pretty weak even in a primarily psionic game, but comparing with the bane weapon shows some interesting choices.Sometimes one is clearly better than the other, sometimes they are fairly similar. It depends heavily on your weapon choice and choice of enhancements for said weapon.I think that comparing it to bane is a much better comparison than speed. Speed works against anything that you can get a full attack against, which isnt much of a restriction. At least when compared to something that needs to be a specific creature type to even work against.Bane works against a whole creature type, and gives some pretty nice bonuses.Desorber works against creatures who have been summoned, called, or have teleported very recently and has some nice effects vs those creatures.Given the above, is desorber so much stronger than bane to make desorber +2 vs banes +1?It very well could be.. I am still trying to get a firm grip on the entire picture <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Hmm.. thinking of this at +2 how would a bane with an extra +1 compare?This would change the equation to:D = [10(C+0.15)+10(C+0.15)RM]/[CM-(C+0.15)-(C+0.15)RM]For M = 4, R = 0.05, C = 0.5D = 6.3934For M = 2, R = 0.1, C = 0.5D = 35.4545For M = 2, R = 0.15, C = 0.5D = 54.5161Plus the bane weapon would do a good amount more damage to creatures who didnt fall under the specific type.Again, desorber is pretty much always better with a x4 weapon, but for the others bane will usually be better.Well, it was fun to run the numbers, but still a hard choice for which + to use.</blockquote>

Verification