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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 7994676" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>Hmm. We didn't find that to be the case in 5E. Life without a cleric was tough in 5E, especially when AoE damage factored in. Are there a bunch of people running without combat healers in 5E? I only play with my group and we found having a combat healer necessary. I think the only version of D&D we didn't need a combat healer was 4E.</p><p></p><p>The champion appears to be the main class capable of tanking. No one has tried to build a tank fighter, but the champion can take more punishment than anyone. The champion is nearly always the last person standing in any battle besides perhaps the invisible cleric. The champion has proven to be a very effective tank. I thought that Champion's Reaction was pretty weak, but it isn't. It's surprisingly effective.</p><p></p><p>No one has built a monk yet either. I get the feeling you might be able to build a tank monk looking at the mechanics. Excellent saves. Really excellent defenses. Moderate damage. You can build towards some defensive moves like grappling to limit movement on the battlefield.</p><p></p><p>PF2 is new enough and not enough is clearly spelled out where you might be able to do some odd things to have certain classes in roles that are different than previous iterations of the game. I will have to test in time. So far the only class I know for sure is hard as hell to beat down is the Champion.</p><p></p><p>On paper barbarians look tough to beat down too, but they have a lower AC countered by more hit points. Low AC in this game is not great for you. They do seem to have a lot of attacks and feats that allow you to do more AoE physical damage than a lot of other classes. So they may be the more pure martial damage dealer than a tank. Sort of like a rogue in the martial damage department, but in a big, smash everything front of you kind of way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 7994676, member: 5834"] Hmm. We didn't find that to be the case in 5E. Life without a cleric was tough in 5E, especially when AoE damage factored in. Are there a bunch of people running without combat healers in 5E? I only play with my group and we found having a combat healer necessary. I think the only version of D&D we didn't need a combat healer was 4E. The champion appears to be the main class capable of tanking. No one has tried to build a tank fighter, but the champion can take more punishment than anyone. The champion is nearly always the last person standing in any battle besides perhaps the invisible cleric. The champion has proven to be a very effective tank. I thought that Champion's Reaction was pretty weak, but it isn't. It's surprisingly effective. No one has built a monk yet either. I get the feeling you might be able to build a tank monk looking at the mechanics. Excellent saves. Really excellent defenses. Moderate damage. You can build towards some defensive moves like grappling to limit movement on the battlefield. PF2 is new enough and not enough is clearly spelled out where you might be able to do some odd things to have certain classes in roles that are different than previous iterations of the game. I will have to test in time. So far the only class I know for sure is hard as hell to beat down is the Champion. On paper barbarians look tough to beat down too, but they have a lower AC countered by more hit points. Low AC in this game is not great for you. They do seem to have a lot of attacks and feats that allow you to do more AoE physical damage than a lot of other classes. So they may be the more pure martial damage dealer than a tank. Sort of like a rogue in the martial damage department, but in a big, smash everything front of you kind of way. [/QUOTE]
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