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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 7997561" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>Yes. It is cluttery as written. I think they could clean up a lot of clutter with another few editing passes. So much of this info could have been condensed. PF has always been cluttered like the 3E system. 5E is more approachable for quick gaming. </p><p></p><p>But Critical Role taking up D&D and bringing it to Geek and Sundry and then bringing in celebrity friends was a marketing coup that really seemed to blow the game up. Mercer and his crew made it cool to play D&D for everyone from nerds to jocks to hot girls. How do you plan for that? That's just some unforeseen bit of luck that surprises you. I'll admit it was enabled by simplifying the system making it easy for a group with a moderately skilled DM to just pick up. That would be harder to do with PF2, even though PF2 is substantially simpler than PF1. </p><p></p><p>I do believe PFs in house fan base will keep the game going with a bigger market than the other games you mention. Their adventures are still vastly superior to 5E in my opinion. Once people see they are providing a quality experience from 1 to 20, that will attract people to the game. Before you rarely saw lvl 20 and your top level powers. They seem to be designing the new APs with the clear intent of taking you to max level to use those nifty high level powers. </p><p></p><p>This will be interesting to watch. On the one hand D&D is as mainstream as it's ever been. On other hand PF2 is offering a very interesting game with adventure paths that allow you to fully explore a character all the way to level 20. I think PF2 will probably grow slower, but eventually find a very strong niche market because it's gameplay is solid from 1 to 20 rather than the first 5 to 10 levels.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 7997561, member: 5834"] Yes. It is cluttery as written. I think they could clean up a lot of clutter with another few editing passes. So much of this info could have been condensed. PF has always been cluttered like the 3E system. 5E is more approachable for quick gaming. But Critical Role taking up D&D and bringing it to Geek and Sundry and then bringing in celebrity friends was a marketing coup that really seemed to blow the game up. Mercer and his crew made it cool to play D&D for everyone from nerds to jocks to hot girls. How do you plan for that? That's just some unforeseen bit of luck that surprises you. I'll admit it was enabled by simplifying the system making it easy for a group with a moderately skilled DM to just pick up. That would be harder to do with PF2, even though PF2 is substantially simpler than PF1. I do believe PFs in house fan base will keep the game going with a bigger market than the other games you mention. Their adventures are still vastly superior to 5E in my opinion. Once people see they are providing a quality experience from 1 to 20, that will attract people to the game. Before you rarely saw lvl 20 and your top level powers. They seem to be designing the new APs with the clear intent of taking you to max level to use those nifty high level powers. This will be interesting to watch. On the one hand D&D is as mainstream as it's ever been. On other hand PF2 is offering a very interesting game with adventure paths that allow you to fully explore a character all the way to level 20. I think PF2 will probably grow slower, but eventually find a very strong niche market because it's gameplay is solid from 1 to 20 rather than the first 5 to 10 levels. [/QUOTE]
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