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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 7997575" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>I was at first surprised there was no ring of invisibility and a lot of old items are missing. I figure they will be released in future books. We shall see. Balance seems to be their primary starting point. DMs can work there way to what they want from the base point of balance. I don't think PF2 doesn't trust you so much as they are saying, "Here is your very balanced game all the way to level 20. Adjust it as you desire, but our starting point is balance." I would never accuse Paizo of not trusting you, so much as they chose a path of extreme balance to make the game playable from 1 to 20 as that is what a lot of PF players asked for. And it makes their APs more valuable from start to finish since nearly any group can take a PF AP now and play a character from 1 to 20 rather a DM ripping his hair out after hitting the 3rd module in an AP. I think that was intentional.</p><p></p><p>But some of the items there are powerful and interesting.</p><p></p><p>1. Ring of Lies. +2 item bonus to Deception and lets you cast glibness at will. Seems boring, but let's you do what it says you can do very, very well and when combined with feats seems very magical in the game.</p><p></p><p>2. Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind: Bonus to acrobatics and stealth and together let's you cast invisibility, possibly greater invisibility once or twice per day. Which when combined with Stealth and Acrobatics feats can very much make you seem like a character that can disappear into his surroundings or walk on snow.</p><p></p><p>3. We picked up a magic item in Age of Ashes that let's you adjust your attack roll after you miss with an arrow once per day. This item has proved useful up to level 11. I like to describe it as altering the path of your arrow in flight narratively.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Magic items seem to work well within the context of PF2 enhancing already extraordinary abilities in an interesting way that can be imagined within the framework of the narrative. There are certain magic items in 5E that are extraordinarily good like the ring of invisibility being one that stands out, but for all intents and purposes the cloak and boots of elvenkind with stealth feats and the invis spell can do the same thing for meaningful combats.</p><p></p><p>Just like everything else in PF2, the magic items tend to play in a more interesting manner than they read. My group was very unimpressed with PF2 magic items and items in general until we started to use them. Goldenmist Elixir looked pathetic. Then we used it. You give a group Goldenmist Elixir before a battle, you lower the damage quite a bit. We though the Cape of the Mountebank wasn't so good. Then the goblin alchemist with his Deception hide ability saw a substantial boost in success and that D-door proved to improve his survival. The ranger picked up a cloak and boots of elvenkind. He was much stealthier and got caught less on his scouting ops than prior and had an escape button if he got caught. Dragon Breath potions last an hour. You get to breathe for an hour every few rounds, which can give you a nice extra AoE attack when you need it.</p><p></p><p>We'll see how magic items go as we level more. My players like magic items so far with the shield being the main disappointing item as shield block has become fairly useless to counter the damage at these levels. And they definitely like being able to craft items they want or need, which did not exist in base 5E.</p><p></p><p>But I do have to admit some of the 5E magic items were epic. The Belt of Giant strength stood out in 5E over Apex Items. If you got a high level belt of giant strength, you really felt like a boss far superior to any other strength user in the group. Ring of Invisibility was extremely good. Some of the artifacts were pretty neat. They weren't balanced, but they were cool.</p><p></p><p>This will give you something to experiment with. You can write up some cool magic items, see how they work within the framework of the system. At least you have this very balanced system to start with and you can figure out how such things affect the system to get the result you desire narratively. If you decide to do this, I'd like to see hear how it works. I may do it some myself. Some of the magic items in the APs are more interesting than the magic items in the Core Rulebook. Maybe that is their plan to make magic items unique to APs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 7997575, member: 5834"] I was at first surprised there was no ring of invisibility and a lot of old items are missing. I figure they will be released in future books. We shall see. Balance seems to be their primary starting point. DMs can work there way to what they want from the base point of balance. I don't think PF2 doesn't trust you so much as they are saying, "Here is your very balanced game all the way to level 20. Adjust it as you desire, but our starting point is balance." I would never accuse Paizo of not trusting you, so much as they chose a path of extreme balance to make the game playable from 1 to 20 as that is what a lot of PF players asked for. And it makes their APs more valuable from start to finish since nearly any group can take a PF AP now and play a character from 1 to 20 rather a DM ripping his hair out after hitting the 3rd module in an AP. I think that was intentional. But some of the items there are powerful and interesting. 1. Ring of Lies. +2 item bonus to Deception and lets you cast glibness at will. Seems boring, but let's you do what it says you can do very, very well and when combined with feats seems very magical in the game. 2. Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind: Bonus to acrobatics and stealth and together let's you cast invisibility, possibly greater invisibility once or twice per day. Which when combined with Stealth and Acrobatics feats can very much make you seem like a character that can disappear into his surroundings or walk on snow. 3. We picked up a magic item in Age of Ashes that let's you adjust your attack roll after you miss with an arrow once per day. This item has proved useful up to level 11. I like to describe it as altering the path of your arrow in flight narratively. Magic items seem to work well within the context of PF2 enhancing already extraordinary abilities in an interesting way that can be imagined within the framework of the narrative. There are certain magic items in 5E that are extraordinarily good like the ring of invisibility being one that stands out, but for all intents and purposes the cloak and boots of elvenkind with stealth feats and the invis spell can do the same thing for meaningful combats. Just like everything else in PF2, the magic items tend to play in a more interesting manner than they read. My group was very unimpressed with PF2 magic items and items in general until we started to use them. Goldenmist Elixir looked pathetic. Then we used it. You give a group Goldenmist Elixir before a battle, you lower the damage quite a bit. We though the Cape of the Mountebank wasn't so good. Then the goblin alchemist with his Deception hide ability saw a substantial boost in success and that D-door proved to improve his survival. The ranger picked up a cloak and boots of elvenkind. He was much stealthier and got caught less on his scouting ops than prior and had an escape button if he got caught. Dragon Breath potions last an hour. You get to breathe for an hour every few rounds, which can give you a nice extra AoE attack when you need it. We'll see how magic items go as we level more. My players like magic items so far with the shield being the main disappointing item as shield block has become fairly useless to counter the damage at these levels. And they definitely like being able to craft items they want or need, which did not exist in base 5E. But I do have to admit some of the 5E magic items were epic. The Belt of Giant strength stood out in 5E over Apex Items. If you got a high level belt of giant strength, you really felt like a boss far superior to any other strength user in the group. Ring of Invisibility was extremely good. Some of the artifacts were pretty neat. They weren't balanced, but they were cool. This will give you something to experiment with. You can write up some cool magic items, see how they work within the framework of the system. At least you have this very balanced system to start with and you can figure out how such things affect the system to get the result you desire narratively. If you decide to do this, I'd like to see hear how it works. I may do it some myself. Some of the magic items in the APs are more interesting than the magic items in the Core Rulebook. Maybe that is their plan to make magic items unique to APs. [/QUOTE]
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