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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7998570" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>The game itself sets a baseline, in that one PF2 monster of a given level is generally at least as nasty as a hero of that level (in straight-up combat; it might be helpless in situations requiring skills or smarts or social ability). That alone is a reasonably large difference to 5E, as you can imagine.</p><p></p><p>Then you add the layer of official encounter construction as implemented by an official adventure, and the difficulty-difference gets larger. 5E adventures feature relatively few encounters which are designed to really test the players' skills and tactics. An official PF2 adventure path (such as Extinction Curse, since that's the only one I've GM'd) is on the other hand relatively uninterested in featuring encounters the heroes have won already before the fight have started. Even a "moderate" encounter (the most common kind) is difficult enough that one character could drop - meaning the players can't "sleep at the helm"; the difficulty is enough to make player tactics important even during this average combat.</p><p></p><p>To summarize, look for <u>underlined</u> text:</p><p></p><p>When you play 5E with reasonably experienced players (that is, players willing to invest in building combat-capable characters) and "everything turned on" (meaning feats and multiclassing is allowed, and you allow heroes to purchase at least some magic items for gold) I'd say official adventures (I've run three reasonably large campaigns: the playtest module Legacy of the Crystal Shard, Out of the Abyss, and Tomb of Annihilation) <u>oscillate between trivial "players win" and low "players win easily"</u> (except, as always, at the first three levels, when no combat is ever truly trivial). To reach the level of severe "players get beat up..." you pretty much need to make an extra effort as the DM.</p><p></p><p>When you play PF2 with the same players, and this time run the game as RAW as you're able to (no variant rules) - I'd say official adventures aren't shy to start off at severe "players get beat up badly especially if its solo boss", and <u><em>never</em> go below moderate is "players win but might use some resources".</u> <span style="color: rgb(124, 112, 107)">As soon as you the GM make the mistake of letting two encounter groups of monster merge their forces you're instantly looking at a possible extreme "probably tpk", so you need to resist that urge, even when it feels slightly ridiculous that the second set of monsters sit on their hands while their allies get slaughtered just one room away. (It would help if official maps weren't so cramped)</span></p><p></p><p>But I'll say it again: as a good DM or GM you can fix all this. Each game has its issues, but encounter difficulty is <em>not</em> one of them, insofar that it isn't inherent to a game's design. I mean, adding a red dragon <em>always</em> makes a dull 5E fight more exciting <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> Removing just one monster from a PF2 fight is often enough to give the party some breathing room.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7998570, member: 12731"] The game itself sets a baseline, in that one PF2 monster of a given level is generally at least as nasty as a hero of that level (in straight-up combat; it might be helpless in situations requiring skills or smarts or social ability). That alone is a reasonably large difference to 5E, as you can imagine. Then you add the layer of official encounter construction as implemented by an official adventure, and the difficulty-difference gets larger. 5E adventures feature relatively few encounters which are designed to really test the players' skills and tactics. An official PF2 adventure path (such as Extinction Curse, since that's the only one I've GM'd) is on the other hand relatively uninterested in featuring encounters the heroes have won already before the fight have started. Even a "moderate" encounter (the most common kind) is difficult enough that one character could drop - meaning the players can't "sleep at the helm"; the difficulty is enough to make player tactics important even during this average combat. To summarize, look for [U]underlined[/U] text: When you play 5E with reasonably experienced players (that is, players willing to invest in building combat-capable characters) and "everything turned on" (meaning feats and multiclassing is allowed, and you allow heroes to purchase at least some magic items for gold) I'd say official adventures (I've run three reasonably large campaigns: the playtest module Legacy of the Crystal Shard, Out of the Abyss, and Tomb of Annihilation) [U]oscillate between trivial "players win" and low "players win easily"[/U] (except, as always, at the first three levels, when no combat is ever truly trivial). To reach the level of severe "players get beat up..." you pretty much need to make an extra effort as the DM. When you play PF2 with the same players, and this time run the game as RAW as you're able to (no variant rules) - I'd say official adventures aren't shy to start off at severe "players get beat up badly especially if its solo boss", and [U][I]never[/I] go below moderate is "players win but might use some resources".[/U] [COLOR=rgb(124, 112, 107)]As soon as you the GM make the mistake of letting two encounter groups of monster merge their forces you're instantly looking at a possible extreme "probably tpk", so you need to resist that urge, even when it feels slightly ridiculous that the second set of monsters sit on their hands while their allies get slaughtered just one room away. (It would help if official maps weren't so cramped)[/COLOR] But I'll say it again: as a good DM or GM you can fix all this. Each game has its issues, but encounter difficulty is [I]not[/I] one of them, insofar that it isn't inherent to a game's design. I mean, adding a red dragon [I]always[/I] makes a dull 5E fight more exciting ;) Removing just one monster from a PF2 fight is often enough to give the party some breathing room. [/QUOTE]
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