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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arbanax" data-source="post: 5406074" data-attributes="member: 61517">Ok worked through most people's comments up to page 3 and for brevity's sake just mention names rather than quote in detail.  Quote 6 <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/gourdcaptain.html" target="_blank">gourdcaptain</a>     I'm sorry I have to ask - but how exactly did he min-max a rogue assassin hybrid? I really don't see much synergy there.     Emm well maybe not on the true scal of optimisation but amongst the existing players perhaps more so.   I don't know squat about optimizing characters and I thought his Warlock was pretty good.  In fact I think all my players seem to get through encounters with little difficulty at present!  I'm having trouble challenging them with monster appropriate to their level.  At first and second they seemed far more challenged than now at 3rd.  And this Rogue Assassin with a Challenge Seeking +1 Rapier seems pretty good to me.  But as I say, I do feel a little out of my depth when it comes to these things.  I'm still on a steep learning curve.       <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/felon.html" target="_blank">Felon</a>  Let's start with the part where I think you're wrong: don't try to enforce party diversity. Encourage? Yes. Enforce? No.     I agree, though I may have appeared to be saying otherwise, despite what is openly expressed here, I've largely kept my opinions within the group to myself, but have made suggestions in the interests of the party, nothing more.      <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/fanboy2000.html" target="_blank">fanboy2000</a>  Thanks for the suggestions I'm making a list ;-)     <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/riastlin.html" target="_blank">Riastlin</a>: Thanks for the comments, I guess I didn't want to encourage the players to start swapping out characters every time they didn't get their desired result.  But having said that I'd never stop someone from changing a character if they were very unhappy.  But I do understand that this guy has a tendency to swap characters when they stop being top performers (at least as compared to the rest of the team).       <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/nemesis-destiny.html" target="_blank">Nemesis Destiny</a>  Sounds like this guy has a major case of "I must WIN at D&D" for which there is no known cure, except getting over it.     His best friend suggested that this was the case - it appears that increasingly he treats the game as competition between players rather than cooperation - which is why I was initially reluctant to let him play this assassin rogue.  Thanks for the tips re optimisation.       <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/mrmyth.html" target="_blank">MrMyth</a>  You hit it on the head, with most of the character being PHB 1, apart from a monk, I think this Rogue Assassin - did I mention they are Eladrin, are trying to be able to be ultra mobile, damage dealing quickstep.  Compared to the rest of the group (no one else is a min maxer - but when they do want to swap things around I'm pretty lenient on these things) I think he will try to outshine them.      <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/goonalan.html" target="_blank">Goonalan</a>  Thanks for the comments.     <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/bobthenob.html" target="_blank">BobTheNob</a> You make some excellent points about him as a person, regardless of his character and for me (let alone everyone else) its clear its his motivation and behaviour that has been the real issue for us all.  I certainly will make this point as whatever happens next, I think you're right that the health of the group is paramount.  After all this is supposed to be fun, but his behaviour has just about ticked everyone off.       <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/shidaku.html" target="_blank">shidaku</a>  Thanks for the helpful caveat here.  I certainly wouldn't treat him in the manner he has treated me.  People may act childish, but there is no need to validate it by treating them like children.     <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/ryujin.html" target="_blank">Ryujin</a> & <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/mrmyth.html" target="_blank">MrMyth</a>     Thank you I didn't know this and maybe since he has built this on Character builder he doesn't either.       <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/mummolus.html" target="_blank">Mummolus</a>, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/vagabundo.html" target="_blank">vagabundo</a>, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/incendax.html" target="_blank">Incendax</a>  Thanks for the comments, again duly noted.       I think when it comes down to it most of you seem in favour of at least trying to redefine the boundaries I'd tried to set when we began - which no one else has ever tried to cross or felt were unreasonable apart from this player.     I'll also talk things over with the Rogue see what he feels.       And when alls said and done if talking doesn't work, for the good of the group, if he needs to go, he needs to go.  I appreciate as DM I only have any authority by consent (hence the reason I often consult the party on house rules etc) but there comes a point where for the good of the party someone needs to draw a line and enforce it otherwise things fall apart!        In any case I hold my hand up and admit I've probably been guilty of making more than a few mistakes, but I would also say that the difference between the two of us, is this guy (I've subsequently found out) has a bit of a reputation for falling out with groups/people (something I didn't know before hand)!  I'm not on any power trip and only DM because of the majority consent.       Anyway thanks everyone its been great to have the support and encouragement of the group.  Ab</blockquote>

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