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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 8058389">Max, I think you are conflating &quot;knowing&quot; with &quot;believing&quot;.When the player says that &quot;my character knows X&quot; he/she is really saying &quot;my character believes X&quot;.Whether or not that is actually true is determined by the DM.&nbsp; When the DM decides it's uncertain, an ability check might be useful.&nbsp; Those are the rules you are citing.If the players are facing two doors, and there's a dragon behind one and treasure behind the other, and a player says (in character) &quot;I know that the treasure is behind door A!&quot; that player is actually stating a belief.&nbsp; Even if the player secretly read the module, it's still just a belief.The DM might, upon hearing this declaration, suspect the player read the module and switch doors.&nbsp; Or the DM might figure the player got lucky, or even that they don't care either way.&nbsp; Or the DM might call for an ability check, and if the player fails then switch doors, if the player was right, or leave them the same, if the player was wrong.&nbsp; So many choices.(Oh, and there's one more choice: the DM could accuse the player of cheating and demand player/character separation of knowledge.&nbsp; But I really don't know what that accomplishes.)But according to your interpretation of the rules, players would not be allowed to declare that their characters believe anything about either door.&nbsp; At least, not without an ability check.&nbsp; And that's just...crazy.Or, to take a variant of [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER]'s example from earlier: what if the OP had said, &quot;I recognize that name!&nbsp; She's actually a high level paladin!&quot;&nbsp; Do you claim that the player is not free to declare that his character believes this, at least not without a roll of the dice?So, yes, players are absolutely free to decide that their characters &quot;know&quot; (meaning, &quot;believe&quot;) anything and everything in the game.&nbsp; Whether the beliefs they are declaring for their characters correspond to the in-game reality is an entirely different thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 8058389"] Max, I think you are conflating "knowing" with "believing". When the player says that "my character knows X" he/she is really saying "my character [I]believes[/I] X". Whether or not that is actually true is determined by the DM. When the DM decides it's uncertain, an ability check might be useful. Those are the rules you are citing. If the players are facing two doors, and there's a dragon behind one and treasure behind the other, and a player says (in character) "I know that the treasure is behind door A!" that player is actually stating a belief. Even if the player secretly read the module, it's still just a belief. The DM might, upon hearing this declaration, suspect the player read the module and switch doors. Or the DM might figure the player got lucky, or even that they don't care either way. Or the DM might call for an ability check, and if the player fails [I]then[/I] switch doors, if the player was right, or leave them the same, if the player was wrong. So many choices. (Oh, and there's one more choice: the DM could accuse the player of cheating and demand player/character separation of knowledge. But I really don't know what that accomplishes.) But according to your interpretation of the rules, players would not be allowed to declare that their characters believe anything about either door. At least, not without an ability check. And that's just...crazy. Or, to take a variant of [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER]'s example from earlier: what if the OP had said, "I recognize that name! She's actually a high level paladin!" Do you claim that the player is [I]not[/I] free to declare that his character believes this, at least not without a roll of the dice? So, yes, players are absolutely free to decide that their characters "know" (meaning, "believe") anything and everything in the game. Whether the beliefs they are declaring for their characters correspond to the in-game reality is an entirely different thing. [/QUOTE]

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