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<blockquote data-quote="Cadence" data-source="post: 8059100" data-attributes="member: 6701124">I like that they were allowed the passive check (with penalty) in spite of &quot;not paying attention&quot;. Similarly, I like that passive checks are similarly allowed to find hiding things even when someone isn't actively searching.I'm not sure how &quot;duration of the action&quot; comes to play in this example.It doesn't feel like the DM had much of a determination to make in terms of what sort of check was appropriate here.&nbsp; Is the DM even allowed by RAW to call for a perception roll for someone &quot;not paying attention&quot;?&nbsp; The player has certainly declared an action, but the action explicitly does not involve perceiving what is ahead.&nbsp; From what I've seen and what [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] said it seems not to fall under when calling for a roll is allowed.There are a large number of things that are harder to wave away than gun powder. It feels strange to have to declare some combinations of arithmetic and the simple machines don't work just to thwart an entrepreneurial character (anything involving more than five simple machines in tandem are attacked by gremlins?). Taking it out-of-the-game and dealing with it as real people seems like the obvious solution to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadence, post: 8059100, member: 6701124"] I like that they were allowed the passive check (with penalty) in spite of "not paying attention". Similarly, I like that passive checks are similarly allowed to find hiding things even when someone isn't actively searching. I'm not sure how "duration of the action" comes to play in this example. It doesn't feel like the DM had much of a determination to make in terms of what sort of check was appropriate here. Is the DM even allowed by RAW to call for a perception roll for someone "not paying attention"? The player has certainly declared an action, but the action explicitly does not involve perceiving what is ahead. From what I've seen and what [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] said it seems not to fall under when calling for a roll is allowed. There are a large number of things that are harder to wave away than gun powder. It feels strange to have to declare some combinations of arithmetic and the simple machines don't work just to thwart an entrepreneurial character (anything involving more than five simple machines in tandem are attacked by gremlins?). Taking it out-of-the-game and dealing with it as real people seems like the obvious solution to me. [/QUOTE]

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