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player knowlege vs character knowlege (spoiler)
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8060006" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>Prefacing this with a disclaimer, because I did some <em>dumb</em> stuff as a fledgling DM. Please do not assume I am accusing anyone of doing these things in their game. I am speaking only for myself here.</p><p></p><p>So, I used to worry a <em>lot</em> about metagaming, to the point that it really warped a lot of my DMing practices. For instance, I used to agonize about the fact that seeing the number they had rolled would give the player access to precise information the character couldn’t have - seeing that 2 on your Perception check might lead you to think there was something to be found that you had simply missed due to a low roll; but the character couldn’t know it was a low roll! That’s metagaming! And what about in combat? If the players paid attention to what rolls they hit on and what rolls they missed on, they might be able to figure out the target’s AC! Characters don’t know what AC is! That’s metagaming!</p><p></p><p>Now, I never went so far as to actually rule that I would make all the rolls <em>for</em> the players behind the screen and tell them the results in strictly narrative terms, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t seriously considered it. What I did do, however, was try to combat this perceived metagaming by being incredibly stingy with information. I didn’t want to give anything away to the players that the characters shouldn’t know, and almost everything looked like something the players shouldn’t know, so I was often very brief and very vague in my narration. Which lead to players not having enough to go on to reliably make decisions, which lead to a lot of questions, and not a lot of action. And when actions were declared they were similarly vague: players simply announcing “I make a (whatever) check” and calling out a number. In trying to combat what I considered to be metagaming, I was actually making the game far more meta.</p><p></p><p>Less extreme examples of what I would do to try and combat metagaming would be to ask players to leave the room during scenes where their characters weren’t present, which lead to disengagement as the players spent as much time away from the table as around it. And, of course, if I thought a player was making a decision based on out of character information, I would tell them their character wouldn’t think to do that, and therefore they couldn’t do it. That didn’t happen terribly often, but I have pulled it a few times.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8060006, member: 6779196"] Prefacing this with a disclaimer, because I did some [I]dumb[/I] stuff as a fledgling DM. Please do not assume I am accusing anyone of doing these things in their game. I am speaking only for myself here. So, I used to worry a [I]lot[/I] about metagaming, to the point that it really warped a lot of my DMing practices. For instance, I used to agonize about the fact that seeing the number they had rolled would give the player access to precise information the character couldn’t have - seeing that 2 on your Perception check might lead you to think there was something to be found that you had simply missed due to a low roll; but the character couldn’t know it was a low roll! That’s metagaming! And what about in combat? If the players paid attention to what rolls they hit on and what rolls they missed on, they might be able to figure out the target’s AC! Characters don’t know what AC is! That’s metagaming! Now, I never went so far as to actually rule that I would make all the rolls [I]for[/I] the players behind the screen and tell them the results in strictly narrative terms, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t seriously considered it. What I did do, however, was try to combat this perceived metagaming by being incredibly stingy with information. I didn’t want to give anything away to the players that the characters shouldn’t know, and almost everything looked like something the players shouldn’t know, so I was often very brief and very vague in my narration. Which lead to players not having enough to go on to reliably make decisions, which lead to a lot of questions, and not a lot of action. And when actions were declared they were similarly vague: players simply announcing “I make a (whatever) check” and calling out a number. In trying to combat what I considered to be metagaming, I was actually making the game far more meta. Less extreme examples of what I would do to try and combat metagaming would be to ask players to leave the room during scenes where their characters weren’t present, which lead to disengagement as the players spent as much time away from the table as around it. And, of course, if I thought a player was making a decision based on out of character information, I would tell them their character wouldn’t think to do that, and therefore they couldn’t do it. That didn’t happen terribly often, but I have pulled it a few times. [/QUOTE]
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