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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
player knowlege vs character knowlege (spoiler)
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8060497" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Let me explain the difference I see. The player that has previous knowledge of a module can play through it without problem, so long as the play isn't disruptive. By this, I mean that the player is using foreknowledge at a macro level to chart a path through the adventure instead of engaging with it. I wouldn't have a problem with a player, knowing a door is trapped, declaring a specific action to check the door for traps, for instance. At this point, the door is introduced into the game and the action is reasonable, regardless of the motivation. The action can be adjudicated with the rules, so this knowledge will still be tested by the play loop. On the other hand, if a player draws a sketched map prior to entering the dungeon (frex) and points to a door on the sketch saying, "avoid this door, it's trapped," then we're at the point of the player being disruptive. I'll admit there's a fuzzy line between the two, but, in general, since I'm not looking for "metagaming" if something actually registers with me, it's likely crossing the line.</p><p></p><p>Setting info, though, is usually at a level that isn't very detailed or precise. Further, it's usually a catalyst for adventure rather than the point of it. So, here, even if a player pushes towards a certain location because of some setting detail there, that's just a cue to me as GM that this is something that the player cares about and I can use that to create adventure around that. Rarely would a setting detail rise to the level of being disruptive unless I, as GM, have made it so. If you don't do that, it won't ever be a problem -- in other words, don't make adventures that hinge on a setting detail being secret, make adventures that use the setting detail as a thematic element. Even NPC plotlines are loose enough that you can do this very easily. I've found that if you willingly tell the players this info and then figure out what adventures are possible, you'll find that there's still a huge amount of things that are fun, engaging, and challenging that don't rely on keeping secrets and monitoring players for possible knowledge of said secrets. And additional work necessary is outweighed by the work saved from playing hall monitor to player action declarations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8060497, member: 16814"] Let me explain the difference I see. The player that has previous knowledge of a module can play through it without problem, so long as the play isn't disruptive. By this, I mean that the player is using foreknowledge at a macro level to chart a path through the adventure instead of engaging with it. I wouldn't have a problem with a player, knowing a door is trapped, declaring a specific action to check the door for traps, for instance. At this point, the door is introduced into the game and the action is reasonable, regardless of the motivation. The action can be adjudicated with the rules, so this knowledge will still be tested by the play loop. On the other hand, if a player draws a sketched map prior to entering the dungeon (frex) and points to a door on the sketch saying, "avoid this door, it's trapped," then we're at the point of the player being disruptive. I'll admit there's a fuzzy line between the two, but, in general, since I'm not looking for "metagaming" if something actually registers with me, it's likely crossing the line. Setting info, though, is usually at a level that isn't very detailed or precise. Further, it's usually a catalyst for adventure rather than the point of it. So, here, even if a player pushes towards a certain location because of some setting detail there, that's just a cue to me as GM that this is something that the player cares about and I can use that to create adventure around that. Rarely would a setting detail rise to the level of being disruptive unless I, as GM, have made it so. If you don't do that, it won't ever be a problem -- in other words, don't make adventures that hinge on a setting detail being secret, make adventures that use the setting detail as a thematic element. Even NPC plotlines are loose enough that you can do this very easily. I've found that if you willingly tell the players this info and then figure out what adventures are possible, you'll find that there's still a huge amount of things that are fun, engaging, and challenging that don't rely on keeping secrets and monitoring players for possible knowledge of said secrets. And additional work necessary is outweighed by the work saved from playing hall monitor to player action declarations. [/QUOTE]
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