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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 8064439">In my mind this isn't a metagaming problem, it's a problem with varying expectations at the table.But beyond that, you are putting a value judgment ("any sensible player") on what is really a subjective opinion.  Sure, in this extreme case (gunpowder in ancient Egypt) it seems clear-cut.  But the real problems in metagame-policing emerge when there's a difference in opinion about what is appropriate and what is not.  What about if you're playing a 10th century Viking game?  Gunpowder existed in China during that time; I could see one player's conception of fantasy roleplaying, even historical fantasy roleplaying, being more than just sticking to the established timeline.Or a more down-to-earth example: how appropriate/possible/likely is it for a 5th level character in Chult to recognize the name Valindra Shadowmantle?  Opinions are going to vary widely.One possible answer is "The DM decides by fiat".  That is one way of approaching this, and it works, I guess (I mean, I played that way for a long time).  But it also works to let each player decide for themselves, and have others react to it.I don't think you are understanding what [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] is saying, because the above makes no sense.And you think this bolsters your argument?For f$#%'s sake how trivial would it have been to just slightly change them so the players actually wouldn't know what they are, instead of pretending to not know?  I read "so never in-character did we call them orcs" and I don't think, "Wow, great roleplaying."  I think "what a total f*$%ing waste of precious game time.""Category error" has a technical meaning and that's not it.But, that aside, there is a distinction between knowing/believing and acting, and I think you know that.  You are deciding to treat them the same, in the sense that both are ultimately under control of the DM.  Which is one way of approaching it.Somewhere you have to have a "line" between the player's control and the DM's control.  The problem I see with your approach is, as discussed at the top of this post, that your line, whether you call it believable vs. non-believable, or good roleplaying vs. bad roleplaying, or "would happen" vs. "would not happen" is arbitrary and the rulings are subjective.  The DM jumps in when he/she thinks a player has overstepped, and it requires everybody at the table to have the same expectations for it to work.The advantage of the character thought vs. physical reality line is that it is distinct and clear: the player gets absolute control over the character's thoughts/emotions/motivations/knowledge/beliefs, the DM gets absolute control over the physical environment.</blockquote>

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