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<blockquote data-quote="Fenes" data-source="post: 1566736" data-attributes="member: 604">I say, drop all that &quot;you are the DM, you need to do that or this&quot; rubbish. Point is, the player disturbs the group. Point is, the other players don't want to have to deal with a combat character that overshadows the rest by that margin.Remember, people - we play this game for fun, and to have a good time. If something makes it not a good time, one has to deal with it. This is not about declaring someone guilty or innocent, just about making sure all have fun.Someone said one cannot expect the player to play his character less than optimally. Again, this misses the point. A gaming group has every right to expect its members to adhere to standards not defined in the PHB.Take, for example, a DM trying to play a serious campaign, full of drama, angst, gritty combat and such. Everyone goes along with, but one player play a gnome prankster doing his best to make light of any dark plot. Should the rest of the group have to let that player continue even if it ruins their game?I had the opposite happen to my group once, I was running a campaign with a group of rather less than optimized characters, and the way their weaknesses and hang ups foiled the NPC party leader plans, and made for additional twists and scnees, was the focus of the game. One player joined later in the campaign (he had been playing with us before, in a more serious campaign, and he did not really fit in - trying to &quot;play smart&quot;, and getting angry when good plans were ruined due to PC actions like killing the last witness. He finally left, since it was clear the game was not to his taste.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Fenes, post: 1566736, member: 604"] I say, drop all that "you are the DM, you need to do that or this" rubbish. Point is, the player disturbs the group. Point is, the other players don't want to have to deal with a combat character that overshadows the rest by that margin. Remember, people - we play this game for fun, and to have a good time. If something makes it not a good time, one has to deal with it. This is not about declaring someone guilty or innocent, just about making sure all have fun. Someone said one cannot expect the player to play his character less than optimally. Again, this misses the point. A gaming group has every right to expect its members to adhere to standards not defined in the PHB. Take, for example, a DM trying to play a serious campaign, full of drama, angst, gritty combat and such. Everyone goes along with, but one player play a gnome prankster doing his best to make light of any dark plot. Should the rest of the group have to let that player continue even if it ruins their game? I had the opposite happen to my group once, I was running a campaign with a group of rather less than optimized characters, and the way their weaknesses and hang ups foiled the NPC party leader plans, and made for additional twists and scnees, was the focus of the game. One player joined later in the campaign (he had been playing with us before, in a more serious campaign, and he did not really fit in - trying to "play smart", and getting angry when good plans were ruined due to PC actions like killing the last witness. He finally left, since it was clear the game was not to his taste. [/QUOTE]

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