Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="likuidice" data-source="post: 1573531" data-attributes="member: 12040">Big problem with dragonlancers style conflicting with my own: Dragonlancers own words "players have too many options in 3rd edition" when asked if that meant that characters shouldn't get better at doing something, his response was basically "no, there should be a flat dice roll, they should never be able to get better at tripping or grappling etc"  "here is a difference to outclassing and overshadowing. Outclassing is what fighters do. No argument from me there. But when you have a character (whether fighter or otherwise) who is pulling off damages far in excess of what anyone else can do, that’s not right. Even at 18th level no character (fighter or otherwise) should be pulling off over 105 points of damage on everysingle single attack. That’s epic level stuff.And in the last campaign that’s exactlly what Likudice’s cleric character was pulling off! That’s excessive. "this is utterly untrue, the cleric character in question pulled of 100 points of damage 3 or 4 times in the entire campaign, only on criticals, and only when buffed to the gills, bear in mind this is a 20th level character.  I actually think that Dragonlancers problem stems from the belief that high level characters shouldn't be capable of anything impressive. "No. Because the fighters are not spellcasters. And yes, I see your point here, but the situation is not black and white. As has been posted (almost to the point of frustration on my part) its not his feat or class choices, its his desire/choice not to play to the level of game that the group enjoys. "once again, it's assumed that a character who is built for combat should not be any better at fighting in melee than the bard or mage, because it overshadows their melee capabilities. "ut after two years do you not think that he knows the gaming style of the group? Has he not learnt how we play over those couple years? And as Gnomish Tinker said, its not just my group he has upset with his play style, and rules arguing."I started playing with the advent of 3rd edition, I think most of the groups hang ups come from the fact that 3rd edition is a different and more powerful system than 2nd or 1st edition. 30 points of damage from an attack by a fighter in 3rd ed is a nice but not overwhelming amount of whoop ass, while in 2nd ed it seems like a scary proposition that will lead to people shouting "broken". "Optimised is fine. Excessive isn’t."  I've made exactly one "excessive" character, the aforementioned cleric, apparently a high level character should not be capable of actually holding his own in a fight."I allow only a handful of prestige classes in my game, and the only feats are those from the 3.5 PHB, XPH and from the new Dragonlance setting books (after vetting). Its not like I’m letting players have whatever they want. I don’t run games like that. "I use the options available and approved by Dragonlancer, so I'm complained at for doing so? bear in mind that I have not actually used a character worthy of the smackdown threads, no spiked chain madness, no bag o' rats, no silly combos of prcs and such, all characters are created using mostly core material, fairly mainstream vanilla feats etc. Dragonlancer believes that feats such as improved critical and spell focus are munchkinism in the highest form."Let me take a moment to point out that there are two issues here. Only one has managed to get air time really. Theres Likuidice’s play style (which I think has been argued back and forth to death) and his rules arguing (which has been largely ignored)."My "rules arguing" only occurs in situations where house rules are used. If I take the trouble to learn the rules, why the hell are they not being used? Another word on outclassing: apparently outclassing someone in combat is wrong, outclassing someone in a skill or other ability is not. for example having a hide skill of 39 with an average roll is perfectly acceptable, despite the fact that the melee guy cant hid behind a barn, while the melee guy having an attack roll of 28 (thats 28 on an average roll, not +28) is totally excessive and elicits cries of munchkinism.</blockquote>

Verification