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<blockquote data-quote="Vaslov" data-source="post: 7124094" data-attributes="member: 37953">Both.&nbsp; In only the earliest games I played was it ever completely GM created.&nbsp; These were little more than when it was a map and a few pregenerated characters.&nbsp; Once players started making their own character it became a shared story with the bar on what the GM vs. players owned changing.I play in a Ravenloft game where the GM keeps a very firm hand on what players can define.&nbsp; She restricted races, rules and even story elements we can use in making characters.&nbsp; That said, when I wanted to make an organization that collected knowledge we hammered something out over several games together levering her vision for the game.Towards the other extreme the Dresden game I run went so far off the &quot;Dresden&quot; story track I was convinced we were insane.&nbsp; It all started when in game 0 a player said he wanted to play a Klingon.&nbsp; As in Star Trek.&nbsp; Instead of killing the idea we ran with it and ended up with a Court of Psi-Phi, a bar called the Neutral Zone and all sorts of Science Fiction tropes running through the story lines.&nbsp; Afer sharing the tale a few times at different conventions I've come to find it isn't all that strange for a Dresden FATE game.&nbsp; What rpgs are going for is a level of emergent game play where everyone involved is invested in the &quot;awesome&quot;.&nbsp; Once we left the basics of map/treasure/next level of the dungeon and moved into character narratives the only thing left to do was figure out how to draw the lines so everyone could find their place.&nbsp; Gamers want that moment of awesome.&nbsp; The games that deliver that awesome are the ones that stick around.&nbsp; How much story input the players vs. GM give is more like a flavor of wine. Some wines go better with some dishes.&nbsp; In the end, to each their own.By chance this reminds me of a recent conversation I had when discussing a similar trend with video games.&nbsp; I see many of them trying to catch the elusive emergent gameplay, as opposed to a fixed narrative.&nbsp; There are a few examples out there, like the Dwarf Fortress tale of Boatmurdered, RPGs like Torment, Pillars of Eternity and still others like Crusader Kings, Civilization....&nbsp; We are still in the nascent stages of the technology.&nbsp; I cannot wait to see what happens over the next few decades to see what will happen in this space.&nbsp; It's a very exciting time to be a gamer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Vaslov, post: 7124094, member: 37953"] Both. In only the earliest games I played was it ever completely GM created. These were little more than when it was a map and a few pregenerated characters. Once players started making their own character it became a shared story with the bar on what the GM vs. players owned changing. I play in a Ravenloft game where the GM keeps a very firm hand on what players can define. She restricted races, rules and even story elements we can use in making characters. That said, when I wanted to make an organization that collected knowledge we hammered something out over several games together levering her vision for the game. Towards the other extreme the Dresden game I run went so far off the "Dresden" story track I was convinced we were insane. It all started when in game 0 a player said he wanted to play a Klingon. As in Star Trek. Instead of killing the idea we ran with it and ended up with a Court of Psi-Phi, a bar called the Neutral Zone and all sorts of Science Fiction tropes running through the story lines. Afer sharing the tale a few times at different conventions I've come to find it isn't all that strange for a Dresden FATE game. What rpgs are going for is a level of emergent game play where everyone involved is invested in the "awesome". Once we left the basics of map/treasure/next level of the dungeon and moved into character narratives the only thing left to do was figure out how to draw the lines so everyone could find their place. Gamers want that moment of awesome. The games that deliver that awesome are the ones that stick around. How much story input the players vs. GM give is more like a flavor of wine. Some wines go better with some dishes. In the end, to each their own. By chance this reminds me of a recent conversation I had when discussing a similar trend with video games. I see many of them trying to catch the elusive emergent gameplay, as opposed to a fixed narrative. There are a few examples out there, like the Dwarf Fortress tale of Boatmurdered, RPGs like Torment, Pillars of Eternity and still others like Crusader Kings, Civilization.... We are still in the nascent stages of the technology. I cannot wait to see what happens over the next few decades to see what will happen in this space. It's a very exciting time to be a gamer. [/QUOTE]

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