Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7629817" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>That depends heavily on the system.</p><p></p><p>In Apocalypse World, to give one example, the resolution of "social" checks is defined differently when the target is a PC or a NPC - players have more capacity to generate true descriptions pertaining to NPC attitudes than to the attitudes of PCs who aren't theirs. And the GM is expected to treat NPCs as expendable in a way that PCs are not.</p><p></p><p>In Marvel Heroic RP/Cortex+ Heroic, the system is fully symmetrical as between players, GMs, PCs and NPCs.</p><p></p><p>In Traveller, there is a rule for making it true that a NPC freezes a PC's heart (morale checks that apply equally to PCs and NPCs) but not that s/he melts a PC's heart (reaction checks are used for NPCs but not PCs).</p><p></p><p>Etc.</p><p></p><p>Well, magic is imaginary. Whereas in this thread I was hoping we could talk about the actualities of how RPGing can work.</p><p></p><p>We all know that D&D is a game in which the GM can produce true descriptions of NPC actions like <em>The wizard weaves a spell about you - make a save - <player rolls poorly> - the hostility you were feeling melts away, as you recognise the wizard as an old friend</em>. The fact that, in the fiction, this is the casting of a spell is part of the aesthetic of the game. But that doesn't illuminate how the process works at the table - eg how often per session is the GM allowed to do this? (Answer for D&D: as often as s/he likes, given largely unconstrained power to introduce magic-using NPCs into the situation)</p><p></p><p>In the Prince Valiant RPG, the GM can do something similar by using a Special Effect such as Incite Lust ("This Special Effect makes one character’s primary thoughts turn to lust for another character"). As the rules say (p 43),</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">When possible, the Storyteller should use coin throws [=checks] to impose his will on the Adventurers. . . . But a Special Effect gives the Storyteller an event that occurs without fail. This can help him control the story without being too dictatorial.</p><p></p><p>The rules also advise (pp 43-44) that "Usually no more than three characters with Special Effects, or one character with three Special Effects, should be used [per scenario], so as to let the players retain some control."</p><p></p><p>The fact that a Special Effect in Prince Valiant need not be connected to the use of magic in the fiction changes the aesthetic of the game, but is largely irrelevant to considering how the GM-side mechanics of that game and D&D work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7629817, member: 42582"] That depends heavily on the system. In Apocalypse World, to give one example, the resolution of "social" checks is defined differently when the target is a PC or a NPC - players have more capacity to generate true descriptions pertaining to NPC attitudes than to the attitudes of PCs who aren't theirs. And the GM is expected to treat NPCs as expendable in a way that PCs are not. In Marvel Heroic RP/Cortex+ Heroic, the system is fully symmetrical as between players, GMs, PCs and NPCs. In Traveller, there is a rule for making it true that a NPC freezes a PC's heart (morale checks that apply equally to PCs and NPCs) but not that s/he melts a PC's heart (reaction checks are used for NPCs but not PCs). Etc. Well, magic is imaginary. Whereas in this thread I was hoping we could talk about the actualities of how RPGing can work. We all know that D&D is a game in which the GM can produce true descriptions of NPC actions like [I]The wizard weaves a spell about you - make a save - <player rolls poorly> - the hostility you were feeling melts away, as you recognise the wizard as an old friend[/I]. The fact that, in the fiction, this is the casting of a spell is part of the aesthetic of the game. But that doesn't illuminate how the process works at the table - eg how often per session is the GM allowed to do this? (Answer for D&D: as often as s/he likes, given largely unconstrained power to introduce magic-using NPCs into the situation) In the Prince Valiant RPG, the GM can do something similar by using a Special Effect such as Incite Lust ("This Special Effect makes one character’s primary thoughts turn to lust for another character"). As the rules say (p 43), [indent]When possible, the Storyteller should use coin throws [=checks] to impose his will on the Adventurers. . . . But a Special Effect gives the Storyteller an event that occurs without fail. This can help him control the story without being too dictatorial.[/indent] The rules also advise (pp 43-44) that "Usually no more than three characters with Special Effects, or one character with three Special Effects, should be used [per scenario], so as to let the players retain some control." The fact that a Special Effect in Prince Valiant need not be connected to the use of magic in the fiction changes the aesthetic of the game, but is largely irrelevant to considering how the GM-side mechanics of that game and D&D work. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
Top