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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7629828" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I think that there are two things that are central to RPGs and distinguish them from games in the same general neighbourhood such as shared storytelling games, wargames and the like, all of which tend to involve a shared fiction:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">* In a RPG, most if not all of the participants engage the game primarily through a particular person within the shared fiction - their moves primarily consist of descriptions of things that their corresponding person does or attempts to do in the fiction;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">* In a RPG, the fiction matters to resolution of moves.</p><p></p><p>The second point is what distinguishes a RPG from a boardgame and at least some wargaming. The first point is what distinguishes RPGing from most wargaming, and I think is a more precise take on what [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION] means by "taking on the roles of characters". Also note that, by my account of RPGing, players in a single-figure wargame where the fiction matters to resolution are playing a RPG - which I think is the right outcome, given that that's pretty much a description of the basics of Arneson's Blackmoor game as I understand it.</p><p></p><p>The issue of whether the moves are "free-form" or prescribed is, I think, secondary. Much more important, I think, is that the fiction matters to resolution.</p><p></p><p>The <em>way in which</em> fiction matters to resolution - do we imagine in-fiction causal processes, do we use the fiction as a constraint on permissible framing and outcome narration, etc - varies across RPGs. The early ones tend to focus on in-fiction causal processes because of the wargaming inheritance but there are pretty early systems (T&T, Classic Traveller) which dispense with that in at least some respects and obviously there are contemporary systems (eg Apocalypse World) in which in-fiction causal processes are almost irrelevant to determining how the fiction matters to the resolution of player-declared moves.</p><p></p><p>What nature and scope of descriptions of actions that the character-playing participants can establish, and by what methods, is of course the topic of this thread. </p><p></p><p>Just to try to bring the discussion back on topic, I'll reiterate what I posted not far upthread: I think it's obvious that the referee/GM participant in a RPG (to the extent that the game has such a person) typically has quite a wide degree of power to establish descriptions of PC actions as part of the resolution process, and not confined to the social/emotional sphere of the life of those characters.</p><p></p><p>Of course the details of that - eg does it depend on a player failing a check (yes, typically, for BW; no for AD&D when a PC searches for a secret door) - will reflect the details of what character-playing participants can do in respect of establishing descriptions (assuming the game rules are coherent in this respect - it's not unheard of for RPGs to have incoherent rules in this respect because the full implications of being a fiction-establishing game hadn't been thought through).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7629828, member: 42582"] I think that there are two things that are central to RPGs and distinguish them from games in the same general neighbourhood such as shared storytelling games, wargames and the like, all of which tend to involve a shared fiction: [indent]* In a RPG, most if not all of the participants engage the game primarily through a particular person within the shared fiction - their moves primarily consist of descriptions of things that their corresponding person does or attempts to do in the fiction; * In a RPG, the fiction matters to resolution of moves.[/indent] The second point is what distinguishes a RPG from a boardgame and at least some wargaming. The first point is what distinguishes RPGing from most wargaming, and I think is a more precise take on what [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION] means by "taking on the roles of characters". Also note that, by my account of RPGing, players in a single-figure wargame where the fiction matters to resolution are playing a RPG - which I think is the right outcome, given that that's pretty much a description of the basics of Arneson's Blackmoor game as I understand it. The issue of whether the moves are "free-form" or prescribed is, I think, secondary. Much more important, I think, is that the fiction matters to resolution. The [I]way in which[/I] fiction matters to resolution - do we imagine in-fiction causal processes, do we use the fiction as a constraint on permissible framing and outcome narration, etc - varies across RPGs. The early ones tend to focus on in-fiction causal processes because of the wargaming inheritance but there are pretty early systems (T&T, Classic Traveller) which dispense with that in at least some respects and obviously there are contemporary systems (eg Apocalypse World) in which in-fiction causal processes are almost irrelevant to determining how the fiction matters to the resolution of player-declared moves. What nature and scope of descriptions of actions that the character-playing participants can establish, and by what methods, is of course the topic of this thread. Just to try to bring the discussion back on topic, I'll reiterate what I posted not far upthread: I think it's obvious that the referee/GM participant in a RPG (to the extent that the game has such a person) typically has quite a wide degree of power to establish descriptions of PC actions as part of the resolution process, and not confined to the social/emotional sphere of the life of those characters. Of course the details of that - eg does it depend on a player failing a check (yes, typically, for BW; no for AD&D when a PC searches for a secret door) - will reflect the details of what character-playing participants can do in respect of establishing descriptions (assuming the game rules are coherent in this respect - it's not unheard of for RPGs to have incoherent rules in this respect because the full implications of being a fiction-establishing game hadn't been thought through). [/QUOTE]
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