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Players choose what their PCs do . . .
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7630883" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>At least no one can poke fun at me now because I'm the only person here taking my position. So how about we have an actual discussion.</p><p></p><p>Question: What is actually wrong with the maiden winking example?</p><p></p><p>Answer 1: IMO. It's an in-fiction act that produces a mandatory effect whereas for whatever source material you are basing your groups shared fiction upon - in that source material maidens winks don't force any character to do anything.</p><p></p><p>Rebuttal 2: What is the anticipated counter-argument? that the maiden's wink in the example isn't actually forcing the PC in question to do something, but rather that its a determination of what the PC's response would be and then locking the player into roleplaying for that reality. </p><p></p><p>Answer 2: I happen to think that's a solid argument. So what is actually wrong with the Maiden winking example? IMO. It attempts to determine what the PC's response would be instead of simply allowing the player to roleplay their response. </p><p></p><p>Rebuttal 3: So what is the expected counter-argument to this. That charm person effects exists and they also determine what the PC's response would be instead of simply allowing the player to roleplay their response. </p><p></p><p>Answer 3: My answer is that unlike the maidens wink - charm person isn't an effect that attempts to determine what my PC's response to an action would be. Instead it's an in-fiction example of an ability that can actually force my PC to behave a certain way and that such an ability is a common in most all source material we might draw upon for our shared-fictional world.</p><p></p><p>So then we can set up a simple test for any given example for whether it will be acceptable or unacceptable - </p><p></p><p>Test 1. Does the action force a response in any of the source material for our shared-fictional-world. If yes then it's acceptable (charm person effects fall here). Does the action simply call for a determination of how the PC acted/will act as opposed to being a mind control style effect? If yes then that's unacceptable because it truly is taking away a moment where you can roleplay your character.</p><p></p><p>Why is the last part so important - because what truly sets roleplaying games apart from other games is that in an RPG you the player are taking on the role of a character by making their decisions, declaring their actions, having the character behave as you envision etc. So then anything that infringes upon your ability make character decisions, declare character actions, have the character behave as you envision etc - any of that also is infringing upon your ability to take on the role of a character in an RPG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7630883, member: 6795602"] At least no one can poke fun at me now because I'm the only person here taking my position. So how about we have an actual discussion. Question: What is actually wrong with the maiden winking example? Answer 1: IMO. It's an in-fiction act that produces a mandatory effect whereas for whatever source material you are basing your groups shared fiction upon - in that source material maidens winks don't force any character to do anything. Rebuttal 2: What is the anticipated counter-argument? that the maiden's wink in the example isn't actually forcing the PC in question to do something, but rather that its a determination of what the PC's response would be and then locking the player into roleplaying for that reality. Answer 2: I happen to think that's a solid argument. So what is actually wrong with the Maiden winking example? IMO. It attempts to determine what the PC's response would be instead of simply allowing the player to roleplay their response. Rebuttal 3: So what is the expected counter-argument to this. That charm person effects exists and they also determine what the PC's response would be instead of simply allowing the player to roleplay their response. Answer 3: My answer is that unlike the maidens wink - charm person isn't an effect that attempts to determine what my PC's response to an action would be. Instead it's an in-fiction example of an ability that can actually force my PC to behave a certain way and that such an ability is a common in most all source material we might draw upon for our shared-fictional world. So then we can set up a simple test for any given example for whether it will be acceptable or unacceptable - Test 1. Does the action force a response in any of the source material for our shared-fictional-world. If yes then it's acceptable (charm person effects fall here). Does the action simply call for a determination of how the PC acted/will act as opposed to being a mind control style effect? If yes then that's unacceptable because it truly is taking away a moment where you can roleplay your character. Why is the last part so important - because what truly sets roleplaying games apart from other games is that in an RPG you the player are taking on the role of a character by making their decisions, declaring their actions, having the character behave as you envision etc. So then anything that infringes upon your ability make character decisions, declare character actions, have the character behave as you envision etc - any of that also is infringing upon your ability to take on the role of a character in an RPG. [/QUOTE]
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