Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7632320" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>It didn't. The invokation and use of a mechanic (the Resist Passion roll) kept it at 'test', which was then failed, thus giving the GM the right to narrate the results of said failure. All is good.</p><p></p><p>But the second statement <em>without any mechanics involved</em> isn't a test, it's a manipulation.</p><p></p><p>It's magic, which allows a certain amount of bypassing the normal rules. Same idea, in a way, as how a charm spell allows a DM to make a PC do/feel things he might otherwise not.</p><p></p><p>However, let's say it wasn't an illusion but just a simple pit. The player has stated the PC is specifically looking at the ceiling, so the GM just deciding that the PC doesn't see the pit coming* might be fair game; though I think most would give some sort of perception roll in any case and have that one roll kind of serve two purposes: a) did the PC notice anyhting odd about the ceiling and b) did the PC happen to notice the pit ahead.</p><p></p><p>* - one has to ask why the rest of the party aren't warning this poor sot to watch where he's putting his feet. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Actually, that it says nothing about the mechanics and system conventions being used says to me quite specifically that there are none being used at all (otherwise they'd have been mentioned, hm?) and thus it's an example of a player dictating an NPC's reaction.</p><p></p><p>But that's just the point: you didn't just describe an action. You described an action (winking at the maiden) and its result (melting her heart) all in one. The action is fine, but describing the result without reference to either it being an attempt only or to any system mechanics or conventions is where the problems arise: it reads as if game mechancs ARE being bypassed by player fiat - which is why I turned the example around to make it GM fiat so you and others could see the problem for what it was.</p><p></p><p>Actually, no it isn't.</p><p></p><p>'I wink at the maiden' is a true description of what a PC does. 'Melting her heart' is merely a description of, one must assume, the PC's goal in doing it; but without the co-operation of the maiden there's no implied guarantee that this goal will be achieved...except by use of either game mechanics (which aren't mentioned) or GM fiat (which, as mechancs aren't mentioned, becomes the default). It's merely an attempt, and thus should be phrased as such.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7632320, member: 29398"] It didn't. The invokation and use of a mechanic (the Resist Passion roll) kept it at 'test', which was then failed, thus giving the GM the right to narrate the results of said failure. All is good. But the second statement [I]without any mechanics involved[/I] isn't a test, it's a manipulation. It's magic, which allows a certain amount of bypassing the normal rules. Same idea, in a way, as how a charm spell allows a DM to make a PC do/feel things he might otherwise not. However, let's say it wasn't an illusion but just a simple pit. The player has stated the PC is specifically looking at the ceiling, so the GM just deciding that the PC doesn't see the pit coming* might be fair game; though I think most would give some sort of perception roll in any case and have that one roll kind of serve two purposes: a) did the PC notice anyhting odd about the ceiling and b) did the PC happen to notice the pit ahead. * - one has to ask why the rest of the party aren't warning this poor sot to watch where he's putting his feet. :) Actually, that it says nothing about the mechanics and system conventions being used says to me quite specifically that there are none being used at all (otherwise they'd have been mentioned, hm?) and thus it's an example of a player dictating an NPC's reaction. But that's just the point: you didn't just describe an action. You described an action (winking at the maiden) and its result (melting her heart) all in one. The action is fine, but describing the result without reference to either it being an attempt only or to any system mechanics or conventions is where the problems arise: it reads as if game mechancs ARE being bypassed by player fiat - which is why I turned the example around to make it GM fiat so you and others could see the problem for what it was. Actually, no it isn't. 'I wink at the maiden' is a true description of what a PC does. 'Melting her heart' is merely a description of, one must assume, the PC's goal in doing it; but without the co-operation of the maiden there's no implied guarantee that this goal will be achieved...except by use of either game mechanics (which aren't mentioned) or GM fiat (which, as mechancs aren't mentioned, becomes the default). It's merely an attempt, and thus should be phrased as such. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
Top