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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7632324" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Hit points per se aren't a part of the game world but what they describe - a creature's general degree of toughness and resilience - is.</p><p></p><p>Take a typical ogre. They're usually pretty tough and can take a few solid hits from pretty much any other ogre before going down - this is represented in game mechanics by their usually having a decent amount of h.p. - let's for argument's sake say 60 each. So two of these ogres get into a fight - they whale on each other a while until one goes down bruised and bleeding and the other steals his cake. We're good so far, right?</p><p></p><p>Now take those same two ogres (who have recovered from their fight) and have them fight two low-level characters who are each capable, let's say, of doing about 15 points damage per round given good rolls. The ogres give it out, they take it, good fight, and for these purposes who cares who wins.</p><p></p><p>But now let's put these same ogres - who for consistency's sake should ALWAYS have toughness represented by 60 h.p. - and make them minions, and put them up against a high-level character who with good rolling can give out maybe 45 h.p. damage per round. If these ogres could keep their normal toughness they'd on average give that PC at least a 3-round workout before going down...but they're minions, meaning with good rolling the PC can wipe them out in a hearbeat. This is where the glaring inconsistency arises with minion rules, particularly when applied to larger and-or (usually) much tougher creatures.</p><p></p><p>(my actual numbers above are probably all far too low given 4e's hit point ranges, but the principle still applies)</p><p></p><p>I don't understand how they can work when viewed through any sort of lens of internal consistency.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7632324, member: 29398"] Hit points per se aren't a part of the game world but what they describe - a creature's general degree of toughness and resilience - is. Take a typical ogre. They're usually pretty tough and can take a few solid hits from pretty much any other ogre before going down - this is represented in game mechanics by their usually having a decent amount of h.p. - let's for argument's sake say 60 each. So two of these ogres get into a fight - they whale on each other a while until one goes down bruised and bleeding and the other steals his cake. We're good so far, right? Now take those same two ogres (who have recovered from their fight) and have them fight two low-level characters who are each capable, let's say, of doing about 15 points damage per round given good rolls. The ogres give it out, they take it, good fight, and for these purposes who cares who wins. But now let's put these same ogres - who for consistency's sake should ALWAYS have toughness represented by 60 h.p. - and make them minions, and put them up against a high-level character who with good rolling can give out maybe 45 h.p. damage per round. If these ogres could keep their normal toughness they'd on average give that PC at least a 3-round workout before going down...but they're minions, meaning with good rolling the PC can wipe them out in a hearbeat. This is where the glaring inconsistency arises with minion rules, particularly when applied to larger and-or (usually) much tougher creatures. (my actual numbers above are probably all far too low given 4e's hit point ranges, but the principle still applies) I don't understand how they can work when viewed through any sort of lens of internal consistency. [/QUOTE]
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