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Players choose what their PCs do . . .
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7634703" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I think the best way to address that is to ask, what character from such a system can't be played identically in a D&D type system (assuming same overall setting etc).</p><p></p><p>On a side note: I do think the typical D&D character is likely more basic (maybe more cartoonish) than the ones such systems always produce. So there is the degree of mandating a more complex character that is appealing. But I don't think D&D is incapable of producing such complex characters even if the players playing it may fail to typically do so.</p><p></p><p>Anyways to answer the question - every system has characters it can't produce. The more structured and formulaic the system, the more characters it can't produce. For example, in the exalted example, I don't know 100% sure how it works, but likely players have to choose a set number of personality traits about their character for each category. By doing this you have already excluded any character that has more or less personality traits than is mandated. </p><p></p><p>Anyways, Since D&D largely leaves personality free form, then all the personalities allowable in exalted are available in D&D and all the ones not allowable in it are as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>agreed</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I find it helpful at times when the DM doesn't orate the whole conversation word for word. But sure, set that part aside.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To who? The player? The PC? I think we are teetering back and forth between player and PC to often here. </p><p></p><p>Anyways, one potential challenge for the player is determining if that is a persuasive argument to their PC.</p><p></p><p>For the PC, the persuasion attempt is a challenge only if it makes the PC stop a moment and debate back and forth on what the right course of action is. </p><p></p><p>Often times, when the player is struggling to determine whether the NPC persuaded their PC, it's because the PC is having an internal struggle as well over what they should do.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How could it not? If the player is playing in character then the only reason the determination of what his character would do would be difficult for him is if the attempt framed the situation to the PC such that it put two motivations/traits/etc in opposition. That then becomes a defining moment of the PC's character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When I play I discover many things about my character due to what I decide. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive as you appear to suggest. If my character is faced with a hard choice due to multiple traits/goals/etc being put at odds then whatever I decide is also a discovery as it's a situation I've not thought about before.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of course you can! That's the whole point. Why do you think that narrative can't be had by the player choosing?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7634703, member: 6795602"] I think the best way to address that is to ask, what character from such a system can't be played identically in a D&D type system (assuming same overall setting etc). On a side note: I do think the typical D&D character is likely more basic (maybe more cartoonish) than the ones such systems always produce. So there is the degree of mandating a more complex character that is appealing. But I don't think D&D is incapable of producing such complex characters even if the players playing it may fail to typically do so. Anyways to answer the question - every system has characters it can't produce. The more structured and formulaic the system, the more characters it can't produce. For example, in the exalted example, I don't know 100% sure how it works, but likely players have to choose a set number of personality traits about their character for each category. By doing this you have already excluded any character that has more or less personality traits than is mandated. Anyways, Since D&D largely leaves personality free form, then all the personalities allowable in exalted are available in D&D and all the ones not allowable in it are as well. agreed I find it helpful at times when the DM doesn't orate the whole conversation word for word. But sure, set that part aside. To who? The player? The PC? I think we are teetering back and forth between player and PC to often here. Anyways, one potential challenge for the player is determining if that is a persuasive argument to their PC. For the PC, the persuasion attempt is a challenge only if it makes the PC stop a moment and debate back and forth on what the right course of action is. Often times, when the player is struggling to determine whether the NPC persuaded their PC, it's because the PC is having an internal struggle as well over what they should do. How could it not? If the player is playing in character then the only reason the determination of what his character would do would be difficult for him is if the attempt framed the situation to the PC such that it put two motivations/traits/etc in opposition. That then becomes a defining moment of the PC's character. When I play I discover many things about my character due to what I decide. I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive as you appear to suggest. If my character is faced with a hard choice due to multiple traits/goals/etc being put at odds then whatever I decide is also a discovery as it's a situation I've not thought about before. Of course you can! That's the whole point. Why do you think that narrative can't be had by the player choosing? [/QUOTE]
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