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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7635965" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>You are looking before the dice were ever rolled and saying see this system covers all possible resolutions.</p><p>The rest of us are looking at it after the dice are already rolled - and at that moment the range of possible resolutions are restricted.</p><p>But even in this belabored exchange, the more important point seems forgotten - that the GM typically has the power to call for a check or not call for a check and if he has that power then nothing is permitted that the GM doesn't permit. Do some systems avoid giving the GM that level of control? I'm sure some exist - but to what detriment?</p><p></p><p>But most importantly, the dice add nothing to my character conception (because as noted, every conceivable character possible in a dice based game is also possible without the dice), nor are they some divine tool which unlock the ability to challenge a PC (as if PC's cannot be challenged without dice or out of game randomization tools). In fact one might ask, how can something we do in this world cause any challenge to a PC in a fictional world? It seems far fetched to think that rolling dice in this world is the only way to challenge a PC in the fictional world no? Or are challenges not real in our world? Do we only misperceive them as challegnes when in fact they aren't because there's no god ordained dice roller for our universe? Rant over! </p><p></p><p>I mean it may even be fun to roll dice and they likely can be used to enhance the game part of an RPG, but all roleplay can be had without them. In fact it should be obvious that dice and roleplaying are at odds - imagine a game that only ever used dice to determine everything about your character and everything they do and everything they think etc. There is no room left to roleplay in that scenario. That should make it obvious that the more you use the dice to determine the less room you have to roleplay. Likewise the more the GM determines for you the less room you have to roleplay.</p><p></p><p>It seems to me these are obvious truths, or at least should be so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7635965, member: 6795602"] You are looking before the dice were ever rolled and saying see this system covers all possible resolutions. The rest of us are looking at it after the dice are already rolled - and at that moment the range of possible resolutions are restricted. But even in this belabored exchange, the more important point seems forgotten - that the GM typically has the power to call for a check or not call for a check and if he has that power then nothing is permitted that the GM doesn't permit. Do some systems avoid giving the GM that level of control? I'm sure some exist - but to what detriment? But most importantly, the dice add nothing to my character conception (because as noted, every conceivable character possible in a dice based game is also possible without the dice), nor are they some divine tool which unlock the ability to challenge a PC (as if PC's cannot be challenged without dice or out of game randomization tools). In fact one might ask, how can something we do in this world cause any challenge to a PC in a fictional world? It seems far fetched to think that rolling dice in this world is the only way to challenge a PC in the fictional world no? Or are challenges not real in our world? Do we only misperceive them as challegnes when in fact they aren't because there's no god ordained dice roller for our universe? Rant over! I mean it may even be fun to roll dice and they likely can be used to enhance the game part of an RPG, but all roleplay can be had without them. In fact it should be obvious that dice and roleplaying are at odds - imagine a game that only ever used dice to determine everything about your character and everything they do and everything they think etc. There is no room left to roleplay in that scenario. That should make it obvious that the more you use the dice to determine the less room you have to roleplay. Likewise the more the GM determines for you the less room you have to roleplay. It seems to me these are obvious truths, or at least should be so. [/QUOTE]
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