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Players choose what their PCs do . . .
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7636378" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Well, yes, if you move the goalposts then the declaration violates established fiction. Upthread it was clearly stated in regards to the player decides that prior fiction and genre logic both act as constraints. I'm not sure what pointing out that if prior fiction prevents a declaration that it shouldn't happen like that really helps -- we're in agreement.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And sometimes what the player asks for and what the GM gives them are not well-aligned. This is an argument that's equally damaging to either side.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, yes, because, in the real world, there's schedule and cost to balance against. In fiction, these things don't exist as actual constraints but rather as other elements of the fiction. This argument is trying to say that because we're limited in the real world, how we author fiction should be similarly limited. I mean, I don't follow how the player would proscribe their requirements and then the DM would do a lot of design work to achieve that, under some form of budget and schedule, rather than just say "yup, that's what happens." Very confused by what point you're trying to drive here.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Whoa. Okay, you went there. Let's unpack. People go to engineers and designers because they have the expertise in difficult fields to accomplish things. As an engineer, I'm hired because the customer can't do the work and needs my expertise. To carry this forward into the end of your statement, you're saying that the GM is occupying this position of expertise in authoring actions in a fictional setting (likely) about pretend elves that the players lack, and that they should be seeking the more skilled, more adept GM's counsel on what outcomes they should expect from their actions? </p><p></p><p>I'm going to have to violently disagree with you. The rules of the board are definitely tempering the response I'd like to give to this idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7636378, member: 16814"] Well, yes, if you move the goalposts then the declaration violates established fiction. Upthread it was clearly stated in regards to the player decides that prior fiction and genre logic both act as constraints. I'm not sure what pointing out that if prior fiction prevents a declaration that it shouldn't happen like that really helps -- we're in agreement. And sometimes what the player asks for and what the GM gives them are not well-aligned. This is an argument that's equally damaging to either side. Well, yes, because, in the real world, there's schedule and cost to balance against. In fiction, these things don't exist as actual constraints but rather as other elements of the fiction. This argument is trying to say that because we're limited in the real world, how we author fiction should be similarly limited. I mean, I don't follow how the player would proscribe their requirements and then the DM would do a lot of design work to achieve that, under some form of budget and schedule, rather than just say "yup, that's what happens." Very confused by what point you're trying to drive here. Whoa. Okay, you went there. Let's unpack. People go to engineers and designers because they have the expertise in difficult fields to accomplish things. As an engineer, I'm hired because the customer can't do the work and needs my expertise. To carry this forward into the end of your statement, you're saying that the GM is occupying this position of expertise in authoring actions in a fictional setting (likely) about pretend elves that the players lack, and that they should be seeking the more skilled, more adept GM's counsel on what outcomes they should expect from their actions? I'm going to have to violently disagree with you. The rules of the board are definitely tempering the response I'd like to give to this idea. [/QUOTE]
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