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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7636691" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>I did say it was in jest. But, if you want to be a bit more pedantic about it - not all games give the GM a whole lot of space to choose when/what they can veto. And not all GMs are experienced, and know when to veto. And if the GM thinks they always know all implications of things at the time they are decided, and make a good choice on what to veto every time, they are kidding themselves. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There was a time just a few years back, pemerton, when someone would ask, "This seems to assume that the fiction has content that the players create. But, why would, or should, that be so?" Aren't you glad that One True Way didn't hold up? </p><p></p><p>The reason that this would, or should, be so is that not all GMs are you, and not all groups and games are precisely like yours. People have differing needs. So, if you are talking about your own table, you may choose to be absolute. When speaking about more broad audiences, flexibility is called for. In general, play will not be confined to narrow channels, so our ways of dealing with it ought to be flexible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You've already allowed that the GM gets to veto action declarations based on genre and fictional positioning. In this, they have effectively been given oversight of the overall health of the fiction. It is now their job. You gave it to them. The individual players are now freed up to focus more on their individual desires, and weaving and managing those together is the GM's bailiwick.</p><p></p><p>Which means there will be times when the GM should know what is best for the fiction, as it is their job to know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are folks here actually interested in thinking of games as sets of <em>entitlements</em>? Play is collaborative teamwork, not contract negotiation. </p><p></p><p>In many games, the player is entitled to very little control over the fiction. In other games, there is no GM at all, and all power over fiction is distributed (sometimes in strange ways) to the players. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Could'a, would'a, should'a. As if people don't think of things three seconds too late from time to time?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why does the player's? I mean, they are both people who are supposed to be having fun, right? </p><p></p><p>It seems to me that this isn't an absolute, for all cases. Nobody *always* takes priority. So, don't get in a twist over it. This isn't about power, or stepping on entitlements. It is about practical management.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7636691, member: 177"] I did say it was in jest. But, if you want to be a bit more pedantic about it - not all games give the GM a whole lot of space to choose when/what they can veto. And not all GMs are experienced, and know when to veto. And if the GM thinks they always know all implications of things at the time they are decided, and make a good choice on what to veto every time, they are kidding themselves. There was a time just a few years back, pemerton, when someone would ask, "This seems to assume that the fiction has content that the players create. But, why would, or should, that be so?" Aren't you glad that One True Way didn't hold up? The reason that this would, or should, be so is that not all GMs are you, and not all groups and games are precisely like yours. People have differing needs. So, if you are talking about your own table, you may choose to be absolute. When speaking about more broad audiences, flexibility is called for. In general, play will not be confined to narrow channels, so our ways of dealing with it ought to be flexible. You've already allowed that the GM gets to veto action declarations based on genre and fictional positioning. In this, they have effectively been given oversight of the overall health of the fiction. It is now their job. You gave it to them. The individual players are now freed up to focus more on their individual desires, and weaving and managing those together is the GM's bailiwick. Which means there will be times when the GM should know what is best for the fiction, as it is their job to know. Are folks here actually interested in thinking of games as sets of [I]entitlements[/I]? Play is collaborative teamwork, not contract negotiation. In many games, the player is entitled to very little control over the fiction. In other games, there is no GM at all, and all power over fiction is distributed (sometimes in strange ways) to the players. Could'a, would'a, should'a. As if people don't think of things three seconds too late from time to time? Why does the player's? I mean, they are both people who are supposed to be having fun, right? It seems to me that this isn't an absolute, for all cases. Nobody *always* takes priority. So, don't get in a twist over it. This isn't about power, or stepping on entitlements. It is about practical management. [/QUOTE]
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