Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7638465" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Thus, a completely 'gamist' (real-world term use, not forge-world) construct rather than an attempt to model anything; which seems silly when the original idea behind hit points was to reflect - and yes, to some extent model - the amount of trauma one could withstand...along with, as you point out below, how much luck one might have going at the time, be it for or against.</p><p></p><p>So far this is more or less true of all editions of D&D. However, in non-4e editions these things remain constant no matter what situation the creature finds itself in or who/what it finds itself fighting.</p><p></p><p>Quite right; although for my example I was ignoring this aspect for the moment.</p><p></p><p>Yet a PC, if faced with an immensely superior foe, doesn't suddenly find itself with only 1 h.p. to its name where a moment ago it had 35; the immensely-superior foe still has to get through all 35 of them, and so it should. But then internal consistency rears its ugly head: what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and so any creature that has X hit points should always have X hit points.</p><p></p><p>None of the indented bits tell me that one hit from a paragon will always drop a ghoul, even though it does tell me that paragons should have a very good expectation of winning a fight with them. Further, even though ghouls might not be all that tough against a paragon-level party even paragons can hit for less hit points than the typical ghoul might have if they roll poorly on the damage die, which gives the ghoul another chance to hit and hurt the paragon. (ghouls are an interesting example, in fact, as at least in earlier editions their paralyzation ability makes every attack they get a serious threat, so leaving one up for an extra round can be problematic)</p><p></p><p>And no PC is going to give out enough damage in a single blow to kill a non-minion giant or dragon or anything else big, no matter what level said PC might be.</p><p></p><p>Gygax gives advice in his DMG: "Always give a monster an even break". Taking away all their hit points save one doesn't really accomplish this.</p><p></p><p>I well enough understand how they work, but I don't think you understand (or can't accept) my objections to their butchering of internal setting consistency (a.k.a. game-world realism).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7638465, member: 29398"] Thus, a completely 'gamist' (real-world term use, not forge-world) construct rather than an attempt to model anything; which seems silly when the original idea behind hit points was to reflect - and yes, to some extent model - the amount of trauma one could withstand...along with, as you point out below, how much luck one might have going at the time, be it for or against. So far this is more or less true of all editions of D&D. However, in non-4e editions these things remain constant no matter what situation the creature finds itself in or who/what it finds itself fighting. Quite right; although for my example I was ignoring this aspect for the moment. Yet a PC, if faced with an immensely superior foe, doesn't suddenly find itself with only 1 h.p. to its name where a moment ago it had 35; the immensely-superior foe still has to get through all 35 of them, and so it should. But then internal consistency rears its ugly head: what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and so any creature that has X hit points should always have X hit points. None of the indented bits tell me that one hit from a paragon will always drop a ghoul, even though it does tell me that paragons should have a very good expectation of winning a fight with them. Further, even though ghouls might not be all that tough against a paragon-level party even paragons can hit for less hit points than the typical ghoul might have if they roll poorly on the damage die, which gives the ghoul another chance to hit and hurt the paragon. (ghouls are an interesting example, in fact, as at least in earlier editions their paralyzation ability makes every attack they get a serious threat, so leaving one up for an extra round can be problematic) And no PC is going to give out enough damage in a single blow to kill a non-minion giant or dragon or anything else big, no matter what level said PC might be. Gygax gives advice in his DMG: "Always give a monster an even break". Taking away all their hit points save one doesn't really accomplish this. I well enough understand how they work, but I don't think you understand (or can't accept) my objections to their butchering of internal setting consistency (a.k.a. game-world realism). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
Top