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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7638492" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>What system are you talking about? 4e? 4e has no mechanic for turning the PCs into "minions" to fight much higher level antagonists. Rather, it has a mechanic for turning those higher level antagonists into solos and the like.</p><p></p><p>This is because a game in which PCs are toggled either up or down would not make for very good play.</p><p></p><p>I've bolded a few bits which demonstrate that you don't understand how 4e's combat mechanics work. Because you talk about <em>resolution processes</em> as if they are part of the fiction. Whereas an obvious feature of 4e combat is that the resolution mechanics <em>are not</em> part of the fiction, and <em>are not</em> models of fictional processes, but <em>are</em> devices for establishing what occurs in the fiction.</p><p></p><p>This is actually true of Gygax's AD&D as well - Gygax makes the point that a single attack roll doesn't model one single bodily motion - but 4e takes this idea and develops it further.</p><p></p><p>In Runequest a PC's hit points do not change significantly over time; but s/he typically improves his/her skill at parrying and/or dodging blows. It would be ridiculous to say that RQ is unrealistic because hp don't grow with experience and hence experienced adventurers are just as vulnerable to blows as inexperienced ones. Such a comment displays complete ignorance of the mechanical device that RQ uses to model increased fighting skill, which is not extra hp but rather is improved parry/dodge skill.</p><p></p><p>Likewise and mutatis mutandis for 4e D&D. A paragon PC can kill a ghoul in 6 seconds. At the table the question of whether or not this take place is determined by making a single d20 roll and filtering that through the attack rules. If you narrate the fiction of that in a way which creates setting inconsistency then that's on you. It's not on the mechanics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7638492, member: 42582"] What system are you talking about? 4e? 4e has no mechanic for turning the PCs into "minions" to fight much higher level antagonists. Rather, it has a mechanic for turning those higher level antagonists into solos and the like. This is because a game in which PCs are toggled either up or down would not make for very good play. I've bolded a few bits which demonstrate that you don't understand how 4e's combat mechanics work. Because you talk about [I]resolution processes[/I] as if they are part of the fiction. Whereas an obvious feature of 4e combat is that the resolution mechanics [I]are not[/I] part of the fiction, and [I]are not[/I] models of fictional processes, but [I]are[/I] devices for establishing what occurs in the fiction. This is actually true of Gygax's AD&D as well - Gygax makes the point that a single attack roll doesn't model one single bodily motion - but 4e takes this idea and develops it further. In Runequest a PC's hit points do not change significantly over time; but s/he typically improves his/her skill at parrying and/or dodging blows. It would be ridiculous to say that RQ is unrealistic because hp don't grow with experience and hence experienced adventurers are just as vulnerable to blows as inexperienced ones. Such a comment displays complete ignorance of the mechanical device that RQ uses to model increased fighting skill, which is not extra hp but rather is improved parry/dodge skill. Likewise and mutatis mutandis for 4e D&D. A paragon PC can kill a ghoul in 6 seconds. At the table the question of whether or not this take place is determined by making a single d20 roll and filtering that through the attack rules. If you narrate the fiction of that in a way which creates setting inconsistency then that's on you. It's not on the mechanics. [/QUOTE]
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