Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7638881" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>But it is true to the fiction. The ogre that is tough for mid-heroic PCs is not tough for mid-paragon PCs.</p><p></p><p>That's it.</p><p></p><p>I mean, <em>speaking purely about the fiction</em>, what is inconsistent?</p><p></p><p>This is not a statement about the setting or the gameworld inhabitants. It is a statement about mechanics.</p><p></p><p>Changing the numbers used to resolve declared actions, and find out what happens in the ficiton, <em>isn't something that happens in the fiction</em>.</p><p></p><p>Some 5e D&D GMs do not resolve all combats using the 5e combat rules. I know this because I read their posts about it. Some, for instance, simply declare fights over with a bit of narration once it is clear to the table that the PCs have the better of the situation. That is an example of changing the resolution method for that combat. It doesn't mean that the fiction is inconsistent.</p><p></p><p>The attack-defence-damage-hp system - in 4e, at least - is just a mathematical framework for resolving declared actions. Changing the maths - eg by stepping up defences and stepping down hp; by stepping up attack numbers and stepping down damage; etc - doesn't mean that the fiction is inconsistent.</p><p></p><p>I'll reiterate: <em>referring only to the fiction, rather than the resolution system</em>, explain what is incoherent about a mid-paragon PC being able to defeat an ogre or a ghoul or whatever in 6 seconds, perhaps with a single blow.</p><p></p><p>Yes. This is determined by making an attack roll.</p><p></p><p>This is all just mechanics. It tells us nothing about the fiction. And it's not as if someone has ordained that you 1, 2 and 3 are mandatory mechanical options for RPGing as such. AD&D, for instance, has many mechanical systems for hurting a creature that do not involve 1, 2 and 3 as options (eg the assassination rules; the rule that magically slept creatures can be killed one per round with no check required; the rule that a paralysed being can be hit automatically for max damage (ie no to hit or damage roll required) at twice the normal attack rate; etc).</p><p></p><p>Turning from mechanics to fiction: in the fiction, a minion can be hurt but not die. Just like the 1 hp kobold in KotB can be hurt and not die. The minion can be hurt by a paragon level fighter and not die. That would be one possible narration of a missed attack roll. Just as one might narrate a missed attack roll against that 1 hp kobold as scratching but not killing it.</p><p></p><p>This is why I say that you don't understand 4e combat mechanics. Because you are not able to appreciate the parameters they establish on the fiction, the narration that they do and don't permit, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7638881, member: 42582"] But it is true to the fiction. The ogre that is tough for mid-heroic PCs is not tough for mid-paragon PCs. That's it. I mean, [i]speaking purely about the fiction[/I], what is inconsistent? This is not a statement about the setting or the gameworld inhabitants. It is a statement about mechanics. Changing the numbers used to resolve declared actions, and find out what happens in the ficiton, [I]isn't something that happens in the fiction[/I]. Some 5e D&D GMs do not resolve all combats using the 5e combat rules. I know this because I read their posts about it. Some, for instance, simply declare fights over with a bit of narration once it is clear to the table that the PCs have the better of the situation. That is an example of changing the resolution method for that combat. It doesn't mean that the fiction is inconsistent. The attack-defence-damage-hp system - in 4e, at least - is just a mathematical framework for resolving declared actions. Changing the maths - eg by stepping up defences and stepping down hp; by stepping up attack numbers and stepping down damage; etc - doesn't mean that the fiction is inconsistent. I'll reiterate: [I]referring only to the fiction, rather than the resolution system[/I], explain what is incoherent about a mid-paragon PC being able to defeat an ogre or a ghoul or whatever in 6 seconds, perhaps with a single blow. Yes. This is determined by making an attack roll. This is all just mechanics. It tells us nothing about the fiction. And it's not as if someone has ordained that you 1, 2 and 3 are mandatory mechanical options for RPGing as such. AD&D, for instance, has many mechanical systems for hurting a creature that do not involve 1, 2 and 3 as options (eg the assassination rules; the rule that magically slept creatures can be killed one per round with no check required; the rule that a paralysed being can be hit automatically for max damage (ie no to hit or damage roll required) at twice the normal attack rate; etc). Turning from mechanics to fiction: in the fiction, a minion can be hurt but not die. Just like the 1 hp kobold in KotB can be hurt and not die. The minion can be hurt by a paragon level fighter and not die. That would be one possible narration of a missed attack roll. Just as one might narrate a missed attack roll against that 1 hp kobold as scratching but not killing it. This is why I say that you don't understand 4e combat mechanics. Because you are not able to appreciate the parameters they establish on the fiction, the narration that they do and don't permit, etc. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Players choose what their PCs do . . .
Top