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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7639022" data-attributes="member: 29398">A minion ogre has 1 h.p., which means that if its buddy fumbles and hits it for 3 damage it's going down; where a more normal ogre could shrug that same hit off as a mild annoyance.A minion ogre that gets shot by a crossbow wielded by the paragon character's hired porter is going down even though the bolt does just a straight d6 damage (or d8 in 4e? I forget), where d6 (or d8) damage would be a triviality for a normal ogre.A spell that does 2 h.p. to everything it hits in a large area will clear the field of minion ogres if it happens to be cast by a paragon PC. (and if I'm playing a paragon Wizard that's the first spell I sit down and invent, if it doesn't already exist!)  Normal ogres would take it as a pinprick.The three examples I give just above would beg to differ.  The fumble/bolt/spell does the same damage no matter who casts it or what it hits...but the effect varies widely based on how the targets' mechanics have changed where the effect shouldn't vary at all.Which isn't RAW, and IMO isn't good for the game unless those DMs are also doing some random PC resource attrition in the process to cover off what in theory would have happened had the combat been played out.  Better to play it all the way through; even more so if you're using options like fumbles or weapon/armour degradation where every attack can have consequences.  (better yet just to have the foes surrender or flee, as this maintains integrity in the fiction while also cutting the combat short)Actually it almost certainly does meanthe fiction is inconsistent, in that even if a DM throws in some random resource attrition the odds of her guessing exactly what quantity and type of resources would have been attrited (new word there!) had things been played out fully are very low.Changing the maths in the mechanics, without also somehow changing the fiction behind them, makes it inconsistent.  If an ogre wearing thick hide armour has AC 17 when it's fighting heroic PCs then - unless it has changed its armour - it has AC 17 when fighting paragon PCs, because that's what the hide armour gives it.  That's consistent math reflecting consistent fiction.Maybe nothing...but maybe something: why can't a paragon hit a typical ogre but not do enough damage to kill it?And why does a single magic missile for d4+1 damage now kill an ogre that previously could take ten of them?  The spell didn't change - it's not suddenly doing d4+40 per missile - but somehow the ogre did...and there's your inconsistency.1e by RAW has these various mechanics, and...you guessed it...I don't subscribe to them either.  Any attack - and I mean ANY attack - needs a roll to hit, if for no other reason than any attack roll can also cause a fumble; a good roll to hit will kill but a poor one will force a roll for damage - particularly with slept creatures in that if you do very little damage you might just wake them up.Assassination always needs a check even by RAW - there's a table for it in the DMG.A variant on damage-on-a-miss, then.  I however go by the theory that only on a hit can you do damage - a miss might clank off the armour or otherwise make physical contact with the foe but only a hit does actual damage.</blockquote>

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