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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7642762" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Why is "genre logic is the model (or litmus test)" not a sufficient answer to you?  Sincerely curious.Let me ask you something in relation to Minions Lanefan.Take some sort of Tentacle Monster (The Kraken or the like).  In non-4e D&D, you're going to get an instantiation of the Kraken (or, again, any genre tentacle monster such as in The Fellowship of the Ring) whereby to defeat the monster, you're just ablating its monstrous HP pool down to 0.  By orthodox rules, the classic genre trope of lopping off tentacles isn't occurring in the sort of "fidelity to the model of fighting a Kraken/tentacle monster" that you're advocating for.  You can narrate the fiction as such (deploying genre logic), but you're not actually gaining any competitive advantage by dismembering the Kraken.  I'm assuming, by your logic, the model should produce that competitive advantage, with the fiction intersecting with that newly gained competitive advantage:The Kraken's tentacles go from x to x-, therefore the beast is less of a threat than it was moments before.In 4e D&D, the Minion rules actually enable this model (unlike other D&D).1)  Kraken is a Solo with various attacks + rider effect and all kinds of traits and abilities:2)  The Kraken has x # of (Minion) Tentacles that go along with the Solo creature.3)  The Encounter Budget also includes Whirlpool Hazards that the Kraken needs to use its (Minion) Tentacles to grab and fling PCs into.Sum told, the Encounter Budget is 4800 (including 1-3).  Actually defeating (2) above would (a) model the bolded above (less attacks coming in on PCs and their vessel, less chance for PCs to be thrown into deadly Whirlpools, the Kraken (1) would then have to spend action economy to recover = impacts of encounter budget of 4800 are mitigated with a positive feedback loop) while (b) transliterating perfectly to the sort of genre fiction one would expect from a Kraken fight...precisely the sort of modeling and transliteration to genre fiction that non-4e D&D doesn't produce (precisely because of its lacking of Minion mechanics).Thoughts?</blockquote>

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