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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7642815" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>[MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] - all ficion in the world is created without models in the sense you are insisting upon, <em>except for</em> a certain subset of the fiction created by RPGers.</p><p></p><p>In 4e, the fiction is estabished in that mainstream way. We know that paragon tier PCs are tougher than heroic tier ones because we have the descriptions of the tiers of plat that I posted upthread. We know that an ogre savage and an ogre bludgeoneer are of comparable toughness because we describe them both as generic ogres wearing hide armour and wielding greatclubs.</p><p></p><p>Because such ogres pose little threat one-on-one to mid-paragon tier PCs we stat them as 16th level minons. Because such ogres pose some real threat to mid-heroic tier PCs we stat them as 8th level standard creatures.</p><p></p><p>The fiction is prior to the use of stats to establish parameters for resolution. That's why some of us have called it "fiction first".</p><p></p><p>The fact that their are more elements in the fiction than PCs has no bearing on this. JRRT was able to decide that the orcs in Cirtih Ungol killed one another without using a "model" in your sense. Humans are generally pretty good at making up stories.</p><p></p><p>Why even bother? Because that's what some of us call <em>playing the game</em> - finding out what happens in the here-and-now interaction. As per the topic of the thread, it's about establishling true descriptions of the events in the fiction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7642815, member: 42582"] [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] - all ficion in the world is created without models in the sense you are insisting upon, [i]except for[/i] a certain subset of the fiction created by RPGers. In 4e, the fiction is estabished in that mainstream way. We know that paragon tier PCs are tougher than heroic tier ones because we have the descriptions of the tiers of plat that I posted upthread. We know that an ogre savage and an ogre bludgeoneer are of comparable toughness because we describe them both as generic ogres wearing hide armour and wielding greatclubs. Because such ogres pose little threat one-on-one to mid-paragon tier PCs we stat them as 16th level minons. Because such ogres pose some real threat to mid-heroic tier PCs we stat them as 8th level standard creatures. The fiction is prior to the use of stats to establish parameters for resolution. That's why some of us have called it "fiction first". The fact that their are more elements in the fiction than PCs has no bearing on this. JRRT was able to decide that the orcs in Cirtih Ungol killed one another without using a "model" in your sense. Humans are generally pretty good at making up stories. Why even bother? Because that's what some of us call [I]playing the game[/I] - finding out what happens in the here-and-now interaction. As per the topic of the thread, it's about establishling true descriptions of the events in the fiction. [/QUOTE]
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