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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7644473" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>From the start I have approached this discussion with the assumption of an overwhelming unity of purpose. The central conceit is that this is what we have all agreed to do. We have created a powerful set of expectations. This is the fun the group wants to have. If that is not the case we need to discuss if this is the game we want to play. Maybe we'll play something else. Maybe we'll go our separate ways and find games that suit us. Playing Passionately is something to do together. It really does not meaningfully work if we do not have strong collaborative partnerships and a shared commitment. That's why being fans of each others characters is so important because to go where we need to go we need to know we will not abandon each other. Otherwise it's not fun.</p><p></p><p>In general I'm done with games where there is no unity of purpose. Whatever the aims of play I want us to embrace them wholeheartedly. Like if we're after gamist play including a strong focus on skilled play of the fiction let's do that. We can work together and celebrate each others triumphs and talk about them later. It's not my bag, but if we're going to be story advocates let's do that hard too. Let's play off each other and create grand arcs. If it's about the GM's story than let's play into it. Again not my bag, but the important part is let's have clear expectations and enjoy one another's play. I just have to know what we're all about. I've been in games where everyone is trying to have their own individual fun and nobody pays attention when other people are contributing. It sucks. It sucks so much harder than playing a game that is not ideal for me. I need dance partners.</p><p></p><p>Look that paladin's player may be trying to Play Passionately on his own and that is totally not appropriate if clear expectations have been set to the contrary, but the same is true of a Monsterhearts player or GM who tries to take control of the story while the rest of us are committed to playing to find out. Both are clear violations of the social contract. Here's the thing: the impulse behind both isn't like wrong or selfish in isolation. The selfish part is trying to play a completely different game than we've agreed to. It's like if we agreed to play euchre and a player starts placing bets and talking crap about the great hand they have. Let's not shame the desire. Just the behavior.</p><p></p><p>I would like to note that I have also seen this sort of recalcitrant behavior in games like Apocalypse World where a player latches on and won't let go. In my experience this sort of behavior is not evidence of wanting to play to find out, but rather holding really hard onto a character concept rather than approaching play with curiosity and emotional vulnerability. When another player has their character interact with yours you are supposed to really consider the impact. In my experience its indicative of wanting to control how the game will play out. This can be fine when it occurs in the context of a collaborative group who will negotiate this things, but that is not what we are doing when we Play Passionately.</p><p></p><p>I am willing to discuss this further if we can really consider what the other person is saying.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7644473, member: 16586"] From the start I have approached this discussion with the assumption of an overwhelming unity of purpose. The central conceit is that this is what we have all agreed to do. We have created a powerful set of expectations. This is the fun the group wants to have. If that is not the case we need to discuss if this is the game we want to play. Maybe we'll play something else. Maybe we'll go our separate ways and find games that suit us. Playing Passionately is something to do together. It really does not meaningfully work if we do not have strong collaborative partnerships and a shared commitment. That's why being fans of each others characters is so important because to go where we need to go we need to know we will not abandon each other. Otherwise it's not fun. In general I'm done with games where there is no unity of purpose. Whatever the aims of play I want us to embrace them wholeheartedly. Like if we're after gamist play including a strong focus on skilled play of the fiction let's do that. We can work together and celebrate each others triumphs and talk about them later. It's not my bag, but if we're going to be story advocates let's do that hard too. Let's play off each other and create grand arcs. If it's about the GM's story than let's play into it. Again not my bag, but the important part is let's have clear expectations and enjoy one another's play. I just have to know what we're all about. I've been in games where everyone is trying to have their own individual fun and nobody pays attention when other people are contributing. It sucks. It sucks so much harder than playing a game that is not ideal for me. I need dance partners. Look that paladin's player may be trying to Play Passionately on his own and that is totally not appropriate if clear expectations have been set to the contrary, but the same is true of a Monsterhearts player or GM who tries to take control of the story while the rest of us are committed to playing to find out. Both are clear violations of the social contract. Here's the thing: the impulse behind both isn't like wrong or selfish in isolation. The selfish part is trying to play a completely different game than we've agreed to. It's like if we agreed to play euchre and a player starts placing bets and talking crap about the great hand they have. Let's not shame the desire. Just the behavior. I would like to note that I have also seen this sort of recalcitrant behavior in games like Apocalypse World where a player latches on and won't let go. In my experience this sort of behavior is not evidence of wanting to play to find out, but rather holding really hard onto a character concept rather than approaching play with curiosity and emotional vulnerability. When another player has their character interact with yours you are supposed to really consider the impact. In my experience its indicative of wanting to control how the game will play out. This can be fine when it occurs in the context of a collaborative group who will negotiate this things, but that is not what we are doing when we Play Passionately. I am willing to discuss this further if we can really consider what the other person is saying. [/QUOTE]
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