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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3855634" data-attributes="member: 2268">Of course I can't speak for the rest of the "save or die camp" <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> but from what I read here, you don't really understand my point of view on save or die effects, which is pretty much demonstrated by those "replacements" you are suggesting. All of those are already in existence in one form or another in the d20 system in the form of spells or magical effects....and they simply don't have the same effect or flavour as what you are suggesting they should replace. They are not different mechanics for the same niche, they are a different niche altogether. From my point of view, what you're moving for is an elimination of that niche, plain and simple. If that was your intention, I can't say from here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> To put up two simple examples of what save-or-die effects can portray...- Tales of Earthsea, the Ghibli movie. The final showdown between Cob and Arren. That is a save-or-die effect right there....sucks for Cob Arren made his save, though.- Harry Potter, Order of the Phoenix. The Avara Kedavra curse on Sirius Black, that's a save-or-die effect...sucks that Black didn't make his save. I could as well include the same spell killing Dumbledore, arguably one of the most powerful wizards in that setting.That's two examples for save-or-die effects that affected the "heroes" of those stories, and killed one in one case. And, with the exception of them causing a bigass amount of Con damage or hit point damage instead, there isn't much that could simulate them better. I'm sure a lot will disagree and propose alternative methods, but from my point of view, there aren't that many, and cutting out save-or-die means one less option for the DM to portray certain effects.</blockquote>

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