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<blockquote data-quote="WarlockLord" data-source="post: 3869811" data-attributes="member: 40098">So, because one group of players can't handle save-or-die, it should be taken out for everyone? It's pretty easy to take spells and say &quot;These don't exist in my campaign.&quot;In the legend of Perseus and the medusa, anyone who looked at the medusa died, instantly.&nbsp; Would the monster have been as scary if the Greeks changed the petrification process so it took 30 seconds? No.&nbsp; If the dread wizard Zorganoth can kill anyone by pointing at them, it loses something if the length is artificially increased to make the players feel good about themselves.&nbsp; There are plenty of ways to deal with this WITHOUT death ward or spell turning: use a blacklight spell to blind him, have the rogue kill him in his sleep, counterspell*...a creative player could find many ways to do this.&nbsp; Charging the wizard with finger of death in open battle...foolish.&nbsp; And invisibility or other illusions can either conceal you or create other, fake worthless targets, which can be used to bypass or fool mooks as well.&nbsp; There are many things you can do without resorting to death ward.&nbsp; &nbsp;* I realize that the regular version stinks, however, 3.5 allowed for some good counterspelling sorcs with Heighten Spell, Improved Counterspell, and Metamagic Specialist.&nbsp; Also, one can use dispel magic or the greater version.&nbsp;&nbsp; It works.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WarlockLord, post: 3869811, member: 40098"] So, because one group of players can't handle save-or-die, it should be taken out for everyone? It's pretty easy to take spells and say "These don't exist in my campaign." In the legend of Perseus and the medusa, anyone who looked at the medusa died, instantly. Would the monster have been as scary if the Greeks changed the petrification process so it took 30 seconds? No. If the dread wizard Zorganoth can kill anyone by pointing at them, it loses something if the length is artificially increased to make the players feel good about themselves. There are plenty of ways to deal with this WITHOUT death ward or spell turning: use a blacklight spell to blind him, have the rogue kill him in his sleep, counterspell*...a creative player could find many ways to do this. Charging the wizard with finger of death in open battle...foolish. And invisibility or other illusions can either conceal you or create other, fake worthless targets, which can be used to bypass or fool mooks as well. There are many things you can do without resorting to death ward. * I realize that the regular version stinks, however, 3.5 allowed for some good counterspelling sorcs with Heighten Spell, Improved Counterspell, and Metamagic Specialist. Also, one can use dispel magic or the greater version. It works. [/QUOTE]

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