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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3873996" data-attributes="member: 2268">Sure. Apparently, if the creature doesn't get to kill a PC because the melee specialists dispatch with it in 2 rounds because they are pimped out with ability buffs, damage buffs and AC buffs, that's different from a creature that doesn't get to kill a PC because the knowledge specialists have determined its weakness beforehand, prepared the melee specialists accordingly, and they get to dispatch with the creature in 2 rounds. The latter, according to you, is a glass cannon. What's the former called again?You know, that's two completely different failures we're talking here. Me, I'm simply claiming that CR as the sole arbiter of a creature's difficulty in an encounter is insufficient. That has nothing to do with the designers noting that "Hey, this CR for one creature is fine, but it might get very wonky if you scale the CR of them up through sheer numbers." Apples and oranges, you know.Agreed...this simply means that there should be a better system in place to adjudicate monsters. CR is simply not enough. It probably works well with straight melee monsters, but as soon as the monster in question has more than one special ability that doesn't directly map to combat damage (hit points), CR goes down the drain more often than not.But hey, we could of course simply start cutting away all abilities that do not map directly to combat.Yeah...and a 13th level group that confronts a Glabrezu with nothing but cold iron weapons and a Dimensional Lock either has a very stingy DM, doesn't have a clue about what a Glabrezu really can do, or is desperately looking for a TPK. If you have a "standard" 13th level group with standard equipment with proper preparations, they will turn your Glabrezu example into a 2-round battle. I can only refer to the Tales of Wyre story hour to illustrate what a really high-level group that prepares for an encounter does to the monster in question.At some level, preparation turns every monster into a cakewalk. Which is why people prepare for encounters, if they can. To minimize, or negate, losses while maximizing their kill probability.The bigger problem is that CR is simply not the be-all end-all of monster classification. It's good at giving pointers, but designing everything around it, or demanding everything should fit it is a bit short-sighted, and shows in many cases. RC already said it...CR discussions are nearly as old as 3E itself.</blockquote>

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