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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3877990" data-attributes="member: 2268">See, and this is the reason why I keep staying in the 4E forum...for discussions that make me check up on rules material again that I haven't read in detail for a few years by now.You're completely correct with how Gaze attacks work as per RAW. Looked them up in detail in the MM and from there in the DMG (much more important, interestingly), and I must say...I find them pretty much stupid.First, making everybody make a save just for being in the same area as the monster with a Gaze attack is stupid, since it seems to assume an active Gaze effect (a la Superman's heat vision) that affects everybody just by being in the vincinity, while the MM description sounds as if you have to actively MEET the eyes of the monster to be subject to the Gaze attack. And I doubt that the eyes are the first part of the body characters look at first when meeting a monster. Second, another Gaze attack as an active attack forcing a saving throw on top of it is simply overkill. I must to thank you for making me check the details out again. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Got me some material for house-ruling now.By the way, with this kind of rules, Death Gaze can indeed be far too deadly. That doesn't make me wanna chuck out the save or die rules from the game, but rather install some sensible rules for Gaze effects, but that's an aside. Somehow that feeds into the whole "new ruleset didn't deal well with the old D&D powers it was supposed to incorporate" trend I see since this discussion started. I wonder if 4E will deal differently with Gaze attacks overall. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> About those "delayed death" effects...if you time them in rounds instead of minutes/hours, they are useful for characters still. Imagine Finger of Death hitting a target and causing 1d6 points of Con damage per round until successfully dispelled or otherwise neutralized. That would still work in combat, and depending of the HD of the opponent, cause a hell of a lot of damage per round as secondary effect due to bonus depletion.And don't worry about exact math...nobody can do that unless using specific numbers. And those will, by default, only work with a specific set of characters, and since you can't include ALL possible combinations of bonuses due to spells, items, abilities, etc, it'd be an exercise in futility. We could maybe agree on the sample characters in the DMG, but there'd probably be a lot of people who'll jump up saying those are totally underpowered or outdated, or whatever. Is why I prefer to discuss the principles of the thing...exact numbers aren't. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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