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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8265382" data-attributes="member: 6801252">I think that one of the issues that you're getting stuck on is the idea that the play priorities are getting "smuggled in" and "entangled" they're entangled because they feed off each other in certain kinds of games, they aren't mutually inclusive, and they aren't per say 'smuggled in' either because while you can certainly hew away from them for a different kind of experience, they still represent a possibly damaging aspect to the experience based off what kind of game you're going for, they have a right to be in this particular conversation because this conversation isn't exclusively about one kind of play, we're discussing the practice of impromptu establishment outside of the strict context of Story Now games, which aren't always immune to these pratfalls, though I know taking for granted that people are 'just doing it wrong' if their experience differs is kind of a thing in the Story Now community.For instance, if you break the play priorities down that way... I don't care about 2 when I play Masks because it doesn't really damage the core motivation to play that game, which is teen drama, the only thing I care about is making sure they can't completely avoid that drama. But when I play Pathfinder, I would care more about the constraints the players solve problems under. This is an intentional element of Story Now play too, the systems are focused on providing certain experiences-- they aren't kitchen sinks, they don't try to do everything, they're very focused games. As Masks itself discusses, its laser-focused on teenage super hero stories, and while other super hero stories are cool, it doesn't focus on them at all. The dungeon-crawls as archaeology 'agenda' I could be argued to run Pathfinder with would be (and thank you Campbell for the term) 'unhygenic' to Mask's intent, similarly Masks Agendas would probably be 'unhygenic' to Pathfinder.1 is a misconception, I'm sure there is some variety of exploration that could be enjoyed in a game where players can establish facts of the fiction, and story before is discouraged, but it would be a different variety than I actually enjoy, because the myth referred to in 'no myth' is the driving dimension to what I mean, when I say "Exploration" my posts aren't arguments about Exploration having to be that, they're my way of clarifying what the word Exploration is being used to refer to. So it isn't that I think its impossible, its definitionally so, though I'd be interested to see Torchbearer's mechanics, because its obviously made to emulate some aspects of OSR play, though not necessarily this one.3 is only really a problem with 1, if I don't care about the discovery of something coherent and rife with intent, I also don't care about the setting being 'coherent' in the same way, and I can enjoy the joys and sorrows of collaborative information establishment on its own terms (and the terms of the specific game I'm playing). Again this comes back to me enjoying different games for different reasons, I love my sweet sweet myth, but sometimes I'm down to ignore that for a different kind of fun.4 is again, down to the experience I'm trying to have, sometimes the conch passing play aesthetic can be fun, sometimes a set of mechanics that govern who controls what the right way is also fun._____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So uh... the question must be '<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29" target="_blank">unasked</a>', its doesn't really reflect the arguments you're attempting to respond to.</blockquote>

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