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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8265682" data-attributes="member: 6801252">Well for one thing, the topic of the thread isn't game specific, I'm discussing the consequences of player establishment not as it exists in a singular game, but how it affects games it is included in-- I'm not talking about how I play any specific game, I'm discussing how it influences aesthetic of play as something included in games. Like, player establishment as an element of design, and how that affects the experiences players can have. I play games as intended, or in very intentionally modified ways, I'm not out here trying to run sandbox hexcrawls in Masks or something.As for the question you're asking, the difference is the texture of play as it relates to the "world being generated during play for the purposes of our story using procedures and player establishment, even if that establishment is moderated by the GM" (Story Now) vs. "the world being designed independently of the players, them inserting themselves into it is the fiction of the game session." (Story Before)What you'll notice, is that post edit, I clarified away the chronological references, story before as improv makes sense to me, because it has to do with the mentality I use to design the content, but its getting away from the intuitive meaning of the words, I admit.In Masks I do the former as the game demands, in Pathfinder I do the latter even when I'm improvising. As far as I can tell, some of the posters here are trying to convince me I'm imagining that there's any difference at all. Also announcing future badness isn't what I mean, I just looked it up (since Masks doesn't have anything like that.)My only original point is that player establishment isn't equally conducive to all desirable game outcomes. I enjoy Story Now gaming too, I actually ordered Blades in the Dark from how awesome it sounds. Its just separate from all that story before exploration stuff I brought up.Oh yeah, and I don't think my style is trad/neo-trad either, because it doesn't prioritize individual character arcs, it prioritizes the world itself, the player's stories just emerge from their interactions with it.Edit: lemme come back to this post for additional clarity, ive been typing during cutscenes in FF 14 and i noticed i used some confusing verbage in terms of using preexisting/improvisational but still different than player established, but i don't know that i can fix it tonight.I LIED I FIXED IT</blockquote>

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