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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 6342490" data-attributes="member: 57112">You're right, actually. The reality is actually worse.When you call something a "trap", you are saying two things:A: Designers maliciously (or foolishly, but then fools don't generally accidentally set "traps") create sub-optimal choices to punish idiot players for their poor system masteryandB: If you are a player who willingly chooses that option, you are an idiot with poor system masteryYou may not think that's what you're saying, you may not be intending to say anything like that at all. But your intent is irrelevant. I've played and introduced this game to many, many new players, and when people like you call the choices they thought were cool "newbie traps" that is precisely what they hear.It's one thing to debate the relative optimization of character options. System mastery is a perfectly valid style of playing and enjoying the game. But it is not the only way of doing so, and this obsession with labeling sub-optimal choices "traps" is an attempt to elevate optimization as the only "proper" way to play the game and it denigrates and demeans those who choose those options for reasons other than optimization.Of all the horrible things that unfortunately permeate this hobby that I've seen drive new players away, this obsession with "traps" is one of the worst. It smacks of paternalistic exclusivity, and it in particular drives away the kind of casual players this game needs to be able to recruit if it is going to be able to grow and thrive.I want to stress that I'm not accusing you or anyone else of putting out of this exclusionary negativity on purpose. We play a game where we crawl through dungeons full of traps, so it was inevitable that that term would be used as metaphor in meta discussions about the game (see the Thievery thread, where discussions about tool proficiences have been including the phrase "material components" to differentiate tools and skills). My only goal is to reveal what it sounds like to new players when people talk about the choices they made for their character that they thought were cool. They don't generally care that they're taking sub-optimal choices. They do generally care, quite a bit in fact, when it seems like experienced players think they're stupid for falling into an obvious "trap." It might be that they thought the choice was better than it actually was. It's far more likely the choice best fit their concept for their character. It can and probably should be argued that such players deserve to have their choices validated by making those choices just as strong mechanically as others. It's also been argued that the bounded accuracy if 5e makes the difference between sub-optimal choices and optimal choices small enough to render the whole concept of "traps" obsolete. I've always felt the whole concept was bogus from the start, but I've said my piece in that. In the mean time, the new player is either having fun with character choices they've made in spite of optimization, or they're re-training or re-rolling. In my experience players only quit altogether when they're made to feel their lack of system mystery (and lack of time, energy or care to devote to system mastery) is the main barrier to them having fun with the game. Which is wrong. And terrible. And I've seen and heard it happen too many damn times.I personally believe that most experienced players in our community do generally want to be accepting of new players and respectful of individual playstyles and character choices. I just wish more folks would be willing to demonstrate that respect by avoiding hyperbolic, exclusionary BS tropes like "newbie traps".</blockquote>

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