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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 6342503" data-attributes="member: 57112">I do not disagree with any of these points, nor with the respectful and reasonable way you've presented them. I'll say it again: it's perfectly reasonable to discuss the relative optimization of different options. I should have been clearer in stating it's also reasonable to question designer intent or mistakes in specific (and Monte's hate-on for Sorcerers certainly set a precedent for malicious design in D&amp;D, I'll admit). &quot;Sub-optimal&quot;, &quot;underpowered&quot;, &quot;inferior option&quot;; these are all judgments of the system, or at worst the designers, who by putting their work on the marketplace open themselves to such criticism. &quot;Trap&quot; is another thing entirely. It's a judgment on any player who'd &quot;fall into it&quot;, and that's what I object to. Stapling &quot;newbie&quot; in front of the term makes the implication all the stronger about the judgment over players with poor system mastery. It's demeaning and exclusionary, whether intentionally or not. It's bad for the game. It's bad for the hobby. It's bad for the community.*All I'm saying is what you've already demonstrated: that we can reasonably and respectfully debate sub-optimal choices, game balance and design issues without resorting to hyperbolic, exclusionary tropes like &quot;traps.&quot;*Vote &quot;Sub-optimal&quot; 2014</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 6342503, member: 57112"] I do not disagree with any of these points, nor with the respectful and reasonable way you've presented them. I'll say it again: it's perfectly reasonable to discuss the relative optimization of different options. I should have been clearer in stating it's also reasonable to question designer intent or mistakes in specific (and Monte's hate-on for Sorcerers certainly set a precedent for malicious design in D&D, I'll admit). "Sub-optimal", "underpowered", "inferior option"; these are all judgments of the system, or at worst the designers, who by putting their work on the marketplace open themselves to such criticism. "Trap" is another thing entirely. It's a judgment on any player who'd "fall into it", and that's what I object to. Stapling "newbie" in front of the term makes the implication all the stronger about the judgment over players with poor system mastery. It's demeaning and exclusionary, whether intentionally or not. It's bad for the game. It's bad for the hobby. It's bad for the community.* All I'm saying is what you've already demonstrated: that we can reasonably and respectfully debate sub-optimal choices, game balance and design issues without resorting to hyperbolic, exclusionary tropes like "traps." [SIZE=1]*Vote "Sub-optimal" 2014[/SIZE] [/QUOTE]

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