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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nameless1" data-source="post: 5286381" data-attributes="member: 83379">I have to say, this was my experience of GMing for most of my GMing career (on and off since 1987). It was only until I started playing Indie games the last couple of years that this has not been a problem for me. They have mostly given me and my players the tools necessary to avoid the "spoon fed by the GM or no game" type games. Indies games are great for this kind of thing.That being said, there are a lot of tactics that can be used to avoid this whole problem in more traditional games. A great source for strategies for this kind of thing is the <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/" target="_blank">Ars Ludi blog</a>. Good stuff there.These exact problems are discussed in a post there called <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/28/three-sins-of-players/" target="_blank">Three Sins of Players.</a> One of the sins is passive players, another is the sabateur. One wrecks a sandbox, another wrecks a plot, and any player can be either or both, depending on the circumstances. Plot type games can be enhanced and kept from being railroads by creating situations, not plots. <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/49/situations-not-plots/" target="_blank">Situations not plots</a> outlines how this is accomplished. Creating situations gives the players something to do that is easily understood, and at times impossible to miss, but doesn't demand a certain response, just some response.If you want to play a sandbox type game, <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/78/grand-experiments-west-marches/" target="_blank">Grand Experiments: West Marches</a> shows how this is set up in a way that demands player action and investment. The quick spoiler is that the GM does not organize play. The players do. They schedule the session, and only after they give the GM a goal for the session does it happen. No more sitting around the tavern and wasting time. No plan, no play. This series is continued with <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/79/grand-experiments-west-marches-part-2-sharing-info/" target="_blank">Grand Experiments: West Marches (part 2), Sharing Info</a>, <a href="http://Grand Experiments: West Marches (part 3), Recycling" target="_blank">Grand Experiments: West Marches (part 3), Recycling</a>, <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/81/grand-experiments-west-marches-part-4-death-danger/" target="_blank">Grand Experiments: West Marches (part 4), Death & Danger</a>, and <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/94/west-marches-running-your-own/" target="_blank">West Marches: Running Your Own.</a>Another thing that I would suggest to combat all this stuff is to try some Indie games. Taking a look at roleplaying from a different perspective than the traditional helps us to become better gamers. It has definitely made me a better GM. <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/97/try-something-new-the-indie-exploration-kit/" target="_blank">Try Something New: The Indie Exploration Kit</a> is a good sales pitch for why we should do this, and provides a couple of suggestions for where to start. I like and own both games suggested. I also recommend any FATE game, The Committee for the Expolration of Mysteries is one of my favorites, Dogs in the Vinyard is great for sandboxes, InSpectres is easy and fun with little GM guidance, and Lady Blackbird is amazing once you get the hang of player initiation of game/plot.In essence, I agree that players should be held responsible for bringing the fun, but I disagree that the illusion of a sandbox that is actually a railroad is the answer, or even that it is subconsciously desired by players. Often, it is just the only way that players know to get some fun in their games. Often, it is easy to sit back and have the GM spoon feed you. Often, it is much less satisfying to have only one player (the GM or a leader of the party) bring the fun. When we train ourselves and our players with a few simple tricks, the bar session only happens if everyone wants it to.</blockquote>

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