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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Markn" data-source="post: 5287304" data-attributes="member: 21827">Note:  Skipped most of the thread, don't have time to read it through.But I will add that I largely agree with the OP.  I will also add that some players get into a rut, expecting to come to the table to be entertained.  Once that habit develops, the player becomes blind to the fact that THEY can enhance the experience by adding to the entertainment through good story and roleplaying.  They also don't see that THEY can provide entertainment to the other players and the DM by doing so.  For one particular player in my game, I have seen him change immensely.  He was introduced into D&D in 2e.  He was a great roleplayer back then.  The mechanics of the game didn't seem to interfere with his roleplaying, or perhaps leveling was so slow that to make the game interesting it required more roleplaying.  But then something happened when 3e (and now 4e) came out - now he is so focused on mechanics that roleplaying has become hard for him.  The game has become about this power or that power now.  I often point this out to him, and he changes for a few sessions but just slips back into mechanics mode far too easily.</blockquote>