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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shaman" data-source="post: 5293833" data-attributes="member: 26473">See, this is why I need an editor - you said that much more succinctly than I did.I agree with Doug McCrae on this: D&D sets very clear expectations for what the game is about through its character creation and rewards systems, with the caveat that these differ between editions.I could run a sort of Huguenot agonistes campaign with Flashing Blades - eating dogs and boot leather during the siege of La Rochelle, fleeing the dragonnade after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes - the game really doesn't provide much in the way of in-character rewards for this.pemerton, however much you and I may disagree on the finer points of this little hobby of ours, I do enjoy our discussions, and I hope you do, too.As I noted in a previous post, everything that Nameless1 suggested is a perfectly valid solution. They are not my preferred methods for engaging the players and their characters with the setting, but I agree they work for many.I'm simply offering an alternative view, one which I personally believe gets back to some of the earliest principles of roleplaying games. One of the areas where I'm guessing you and I are in more-or-less complete agreement is the FoRE concept of 'system matters.' I think later editions of D&D represent playing catch-up to what people were attempting to do with the game in actual play, often as encouraged by media such as Dragon articles, but my personal feeling is that this effort missed the train because the execution focused on maintaining the same character memes while tacking on additional rewards systems.Since I've walked out this far on a limb, I might as well go a little farther with an example. One of my favorite roleplaying games continues to be 2e Boot Hill. At first blush it appears to be little more than the tabletop skirmish game from which it originated: character abilities are related solely to gunfighting and throwing stuff, and the only way they change is by surviving fights or aging. However, there is a second rewards system as well, the acquisition of wealth. You can drive cattle or rob banks or hunt bounties or enforce The Law, and the system provides the resolution for this as well. Even though it's not reflected in my character abilities, the system still supports a wider range of character goals than shooting, stabbing, or punching stuff.3e Boot Hill was a significant revision of the game, with skill systems, changes to combat resolution, and a new reward system. The authors didn't try to tinker around the edges; they came at the system with a whole new perspective, and actually created a very good roleplaying game - if the genre were more popular, 3e Boot Hill would probably be on more gamers 'desert island' lists.I think D&D has a very strong set of core memes; for a variety of reasons, gamers have been encouraged for years to keep expanding those memes, encouraged with great exuberance but perhaps with less-than-thorough consideration of how that expansion is reflected in the system. I think this is what is reflected in the original post, and my suggestion is, return to first princicples first.Oh, perhaps once ot twice. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />And I would consider that 'faffing about,' that discovery through play, to be adventure, too.Difference strokes lead to horse races, or something like that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

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