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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7454097" data-attributes="member: 996">D&amp;D combat is part of a game (because D&amp;D actually is a game, it's easy to forget that, at times, because it's such an open-ended 'infinite game' in concept, and such a technically poor one in mechanics).&nbsp; Treating a game as a war is......inappropriate.&nbsp; &nbsp; Yeah, ironically, even in a wargame.&nbsp; ;P&nbsp; Going all Kobayashi Maru on every scenario defeats the purpose of the exercise, in the first place.CaW/CaS is thus mis-stating things.&nbsp; I think iserith (and indie game designs that use similar ideas) have a better grasp on the underlying range of play possibilities in &quot;stakes.&quot;&nbsp; (Personally, I also think genre conventions come into it, and climactic battles with main villains might be set up with a creative/improbable/desperate assault like that, but not instantly won with one, becaue that'd be anit-climactic.)&nbsp;&nbsp; RPGs run aground on issues like this because they're so open-ended, and the player's ideas of what a given action should result in can be so different from the DM's (and the DM's is ultimately what goes).If the DM goes through a process with his players:&nbsp; ... he can avoid problems like the OP's, and avoid frustrating his players...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7454097, member: 996"] D&D combat is part of a game (because D&D actually is a game, it's easy to forget that, at times, because it's such an open-ended 'infinite game' in concept, and such a technically poor one in mechanics). Treating a game as a war is... ...inappropriate. Yeah, ironically, even in a wargame. ;P Going all Kobayashi Maru on every scenario defeats the purpose of the exercise, in the first place. CaW/CaS is thus mis-stating things. I think iserith (and indie game designs that use similar ideas) have a better grasp on the underlying range of play possibilities in "stakes." (Personally, I also think genre conventions come into it, and climactic battles with main villains might be set up with a creative/improbable/desperate assault like that, but not instantly won with one, becaue that'd be anit-climactic.) RPGs run aground on issues like this because they're so open-ended, and the player's ideas of what a given action should result in can be so different from the DM's (and the DM's is ultimately what goes). If the DM goes through a process with his players: ... he can avoid problems like the OP's, and avoid frustrating his players... [/QUOTE]

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