Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7795490" data-attributes="member: 22779">My point is, neither of those are direct consequences to the PC.&nbsp; Nothing bad happens directly to the PC on a failure.&nbsp; Sure, there might be other stuff going on, or, there might not be anyone on the other side of that door to alert.&nbsp; And, again, while you are spotted by those you are trying to hide from, it doesn't mean that you suffer additional consequences.&nbsp; All it meant is that you failed your check.&nbsp; That's the point I'm arguing against.&nbsp; You don't suffer additional consequences for a failed check other than, &quot;you failed this check&quot;.&nbsp; There's no &quot;falling prone&quot; for a failed stealth check.&nbsp; I don't knock myself out for failing to break open the door,.&nbsp; No direct to my character consequences for failure.LOL.&nbsp; Ok, fair enough.&nbsp; Jumping examples have leapt the selachimorpha.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Well, there is the cost of simply failing.&nbsp; Which means you are going to have to spend more time if you want to succeed.&nbsp; For example, it would be a Handle Animal check to get your horse to jump over something like a pit.&nbsp; A fail would probably mean that the horse balks and you have to go back and try again.&nbsp; But, sure, it's going to depend on the situation, of course.&nbsp; Context always matters.&nbsp; But, even in the case where the animal attacks you, a failed check doesn't result in the animal going into a blind rage, gaining 50 HP and doubling its damage as it rips into your, and only your, character.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />IOW, there is no additional penalty for failure.I'm going more by what I've seen at tables, and what I'm seeing in virtually every single example that gets posited on the boards.&nbsp; [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] set a DC of 20 to know 2 facts about a monster, with a chance&nbsp; that neither of those facts would actually be useful in context.&nbsp; To me, that's ridiculously high.&nbsp; And, IIRC, there was a chance on a failed check of learning false information.&nbsp; ((Correct me if I'm misattributing that to you [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER], I know someone said it))&nbsp; So, I have about a 50:50 chance of success, which means I learn a minimal amount of information, potentially of no value to me in context, and a 50% chance of learning misleading information which I have no means of falsifying beforehand.And that's presuming a +10 on the skill check, which means I'm looking at about a 10th level character (or thereabouts).&nbsp; Certainly not a fresh off the farm character anyway.&nbsp; So, yeah, while I cannot comment about your game, I can only go by the truckload of examples from the boards of DM's who really, really don't realize the implications of their math.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7795490, member: 22779"] My point is, neither of those are direct consequences to the PC. Nothing bad happens directly to the PC on a failure. Sure, there might be other stuff going on, or, there might not be anyone on the other side of that door to alert. And, again, while you are spotted by those you are trying to hide from, it doesn't mean that you suffer additional consequences. All it meant is that you failed your check. That's the point I'm arguing against. You don't suffer additional consequences for a failed check other than, "you failed this check". There's no "falling prone" for a failed stealth check. I don't knock myself out for failing to break open the door,. No direct to my character consequences for failure. LOL. Ok, fair enough. Jumping examples have leapt the selachimorpha. :D Well, there is the cost of simply failing. Which means you are going to have to spend more time if you want to succeed. For example, it would be a Handle Animal check to get your horse to jump over something like a pit. A fail would probably mean that the horse balks and you have to go back and try again. But, sure, it's going to depend on the situation, of course. Context always matters. But, even in the case where the animal attacks you, a failed check doesn't result in the animal going into a blind rage, gaining 50 HP and doubling its damage as it rips into your, and only your, character. :) IOW, there is no additional penalty for failure. I'm going more by what I've seen at tables, and what I'm seeing in virtually every single example that gets posited on the boards. [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] set a DC of 20 to know 2 facts about a monster, with a chance that neither of those facts would actually be useful in context. To me, that's ridiculously high. And, IIRC, there was a chance on a failed check of learning false information. ((Correct me if I'm misattributing that to you [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER], I know someone said it)) So, I have about a 50:50 chance of success, which means I learn a minimal amount of information, potentially of no value to me in context, and a 50% chance of learning misleading information which I have no means of falsifying beforehand. And that's presuming a +10 on the skill check, which means I'm looking at about a 10th level character (or thereabouts). Certainly not a fresh off the farm character anyway. So, yeah, while I cannot comment about your game, I can only go by the truckload of examples from the boards of DM's who really, really don't realize the implications of their math. [/QUOTE]

Verification