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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7795592" data-attributes="member: 16814">Fundamentally, though, you're only counting flips to see if they accomplish some goal.&nbsp; I'm skipping the counting, so I don't need to actually determine the count except as, maybe, a point of color.&nbsp; As I said, you're focused on resolution at the task level, I'm not.&nbsp; I don't care how many flips were made, I care if the goal was achieved.As for silver being a lower goal, I feel we're now making a close study of trees.&nbsp; If silver is also an acceptable, if lesser, result, then getting a gold medal isn't the end goal for this check, it's just another step along the way.&nbsp; You first count flips, then add those to get a medal, then use the medal to...?&nbsp; I'd rather start at the end, here, and figure out what the top level goal is and go there, if we're talking about a single check.&nbsp; Perhaps the medal allows access to somewhere?&nbsp; Then let's make a check to do well enough in the competition to gain access, at which point both the number of flips and the metallurgy of the reward are color -- you either do well enough to get access or you don't.If access is meant to be a scene level goal, where steps must be taken to arrange the fiction such that the end goal is achievable, then let's discuss scenes and how they can be structured in a goal and approach manner to achieve this.&nbsp; I like modified skill challenge frameworks, where each check alters the fiction either towards the end goal or away.&nbsp; You could build a contest up like this, with varied uses of social skills between rounds to influence judges, discover favorite moves, or dishearten competitors and various physical challenges during the rounds (player directed), perhaps gaining advantage/disadvantage for the between round interactions/preparations.&nbsp; The goal of 'access' can then be achieved if you succeed enough times before you fail too many times, with the DM able to declare the color of the medals as color.&nbsp; I just don't see how the color of the medal matters if it attains the overall goal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7795592, member: 16814"] Fundamentally, though, you're only counting flips to see if they accomplish some goal. I'm skipping the counting, so I don't need to actually determine the count except as, maybe, a point of color. As I said, you're focused on resolution at the task level, I'm not. I don't care how many flips were made, I care if the goal was achieved. As for silver being a lower goal, I feel we're now making a close study of trees. If silver is also an acceptable, if lesser, result, then getting a gold medal isn't the end goal for this check, it's just another step along the way. You first count flips, then add those to get a medal, then use the medal to...? I'd rather start at the end, here, and figure out what the top level goal is and go there, if we're talking about a single check. Perhaps the medal allows access to somewhere? Then let's make a check to do well enough in the competition to gain access, at which point both the number of flips and the metallurgy of the reward are color -- you either do well enough to get access or you don't. If access is meant to be a scene level goal, where steps must be taken to arrange the fiction such that the end goal is achievable, then let's discuss scenes and how they can be structured in a goal and approach manner to achieve this. I like modified skill challenge frameworks, where each check alters the fiction either towards the end goal or away. You could build a contest up like this, with varied uses of social skills between rounds to influence judges, discover favorite moves, or dishearten competitors and various physical challenges during the rounds (player directed), perhaps gaining advantage/disadvantage for the between round interactions/preparations. The goal of 'access' can then be achieved if you succeed enough times before you fail too many times, with the DM able to declare the color of the medals as color. I just don't see how the color of the medal matters if it attains the overall goal. [/QUOTE]

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