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Players: Why Do You Want to Roll a d20?
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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7796831" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>Sounds like me your quoting but your taking it out of context and I didn't say a players characters choices shouldn't matter. <strong>While I agree with most of your post</strong>, your falling into a trap of throwing out all reason by quoting the core of my argument but disregarding the details that prevent this type of thing. So the below is not a striate disagreement with you but a clarification of my "stats first" style of play. </p><p></p><p>What I said is that any action a player chooses to make will be tested versus there characters stats however, I do allow that the GM determines the out come of "success" and that the player must state the action before calling for a role. Player seeing the T-rex, I would like to attempt to befriend it. GM: ...ok... roll... Player: I rolled a natural 20 with expertise and wisdom of 22 for a total of 38... GM: ok, with your knowledge of animals you release that as you attempt to use a ration out of your bag to befriend the T-rex its acting as if its hungry and willing to except your offering... but its looking at YOU not your rations. It will happily except you as a friendly meal. But you are also aware due to your keen awareness of how to handle this animal ,its moving slowly to "sneak up on you" if you run... it will catch you but you see tree you can ease slowly to, and when it attempts to bite at you, you could use the tree for cover against this attack and while its trying to grab you with its large mouth it will loose sight of you for your next turn, so you could possibly sneak to another tree and star moving stealthly away... if it does not spot you again on its turn.</p><p></p><p>A success on an animal handling check represent you knowing how to handle animal and respond to how it will react. <strong>It does not grant you the ability to mind control animals</strong>. In that way there are times when animal handling is a form of persuasion that works on animals and other times when its a form of incite that works on animals. The high roll above was a success and the result of the success was to know better how to handle the animal. That highlight the player was free to control there character, the characters skills were taken into account, but the player does not become the GM able to bend the world to the whim of the dice.</p><p></p><p>I used your example. If you used a different example of a player attempting to control the world through calling rolls (which they must declare the action of BEFORE they roll or it doesn't count and its just testing dice), the GM should allow the PC Acton using stats but the result of success or failure is still the GMs to control. The same with any attempt to jump the grand canyon or flap your arms high enough to fly. There is a spell for flight and jump, but success in an attempt without a spell might just mean they looked really good doing it and didn't hurt themselves, while failure would result in them looking really stupid, pulling a missile, and falling down. <strong>Its the balance of the GM letting players control there character as their character and not based on the player, but reminding players the GM controls the world</strong>. <strong>Which is why I let the player call for any role, but I as GM narrate the result. This means they don't get to say "this is my new pet T-Rex" only the GM decides how there actions effect the world, success or failure. Stats first just means that if they describe a persuasion attempt in the worst possible way, they still get the attempt and if they just call for a role, they still get the attempt and both with be using PC stats without a negative.</strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7796831, member: 6880599"] Sounds like me your quoting but your taking it out of context and I didn't say a players characters choices shouldn't matter. [B]While I agree with most of your post[/B], your falling into a trap of throwing out all reason by quoting the core of my argument but disregarding the details that prevent this type of thing. So the below is not a striate disagreement with you but a clarification of my "stats first" style of play. What I said is that any action a player chooses to make will be tested versus there characters stats however, I do allow that the GM determines the out come of "success" and that the player must state the action before calling for a role. Player seeing the T-rex, I would like to attempt to befriend it. GM: ...ok... roll... Player: I rolled a natural 20 with expertise and wisdom of 22 for a total of 38... GM: ok, with your knowledge of animals you release that as you attempt to use a ration out of your bag to befriend the T-rex its acting as if its hungry and willing to except your offering... but its looking at YOU not your rations. It will happily except you as a friendly meal. But you are also aware due to your keen awareness of how to handle this animal ,its moving slowly to "sneak up on you" if you run... it will catch you but you see tree you can ease slowly to, and when it attempts to bite at you, you could use the tree for cover against this attack and while its trying to grab you with its large mouth it will loose sight of you for your next turn, so you could possibly sneak to another tree and star moving stealthly away... if it does not spot you again on its turn. A success on an animal handling check represent you knowing how to handle animal and respond to how it will react. [B]It does not grant you the ability to mind control animals[/B]. In that way there are times when animal handling is a form of persuasion that works on animals and other times when its a form of incite that works on animals. The high roll above was a success and the result of the success was to know better how to handle the animal. That highlight the player was free to control there character, the characters skills were taken into account, but the player does not become the GM able to bend the world to the whim of the dice. I used your example. If you used a different example of a player attempting to control the world through calling rolls (which they must declare the action of BEFORE they roll or it doesn't count and its just testing dice), the GM should allow the PC Acton using stats but the result of success or failure is still the GMs to control. The same with any attempt to jump the grand canyon or flap your arms high enough to fly. There is a spell for flight and jump, but success in an attempt without a spell might just mean they looked really good doing it and didn't hurt themselves, while failure would result in them looking really stupid, pulling a missile, and falling down. [B]Its the balance of the GM letting players control there character as their character and not based on the player, but reminding players the GM controls the world[/B]. [B]Which is why I let the player call for any role, but I as GM narrate the result. This means they don't get to say "this is my new pet T-Rex" only the GM decides how there actions effect the world, success or failure. Stats first just means that if they describe a persuasion attempt in the worst possible way, they still get the attempt and if they just call for a role, they still get the attempt and both with be using PC stats without a negative.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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