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Message: <blockquote data-quote="amerigoV" data-source="post: 5609937">I played in a 2 hour 2e game at Origins this year. It was the top portion of Ye Olde Moathouse. While what the OP says is true about 2e (and I did have fun), it did remind me why I will not play it anymore - just a maddening jumble of "roll high for this, roll low for that". I ran the thief and the wizard, and in that two hours I rolled the following to see if I could do anything:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll high on a d20 to hit</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll low on a d20 to see if I could swim across the moat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll high on a d6 to surprise someone</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll low on a d6 to see if I found a secret door</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll low on d% to listen /detect traps/climb</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Roll low on a d10 for initiative</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> No roll - cast a spell</li> </ul>I felt like I was playing Calvinball. Fun, but the rules were a mess.3e is a beast on the DM side of things. It was a necessary step to clean up the mechanics, but building monsters the same way you build PCs turned out to be a mistake that 4e fixed nicely. I'll play in a 3e game because I can build about anything I want. I will not DM it anymore (I am a Savage Worlds guy). My impression is that 3e combats ramp up in play time. First level or two might be slower due to the "whiff" factor, but then it steadily increases due to more and more options. I ran an 18th level one-shot with a large group and it was a killer time-wise.I have had fun in the few 4e games that I have played. It certainly scratches the "kick in the door and take their stuff" itch. I have only DM'd it once, and that was with the trail rules. I like what they did with the DM side of the screen. I'll gladly play the game. My combat impression is fights start at 6th level in feel (to previous editions). Fun, but one can miss out on the "wet behind the ears growing to be competent" feeling. Fun for those of us that like tactics, but I feel I need the right group of people to get the most out of the game.I do agree that skills sometimes are a crutch for both players and DMs. Yes, players may want to handwave, but DMs need to run the skills right. You use them at the point that there are odd of things going different directions, not was a replacement for good play. Ie, they replace the DM "rolling something" in 1e to determine of what you said/did succeeds if there is a chance of failure.</blockquote>

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