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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 5610500" data-attributes="member: 55966">Listen guys, I'm making these three claims.1) Save or die means&nbsp; that the possibility is there that a character or even a party can be&nbsp; destroyed by a few bad rolls, regardless of how skilled you are.&nbsp; Sure&nbsp; you might be able to ensure that you have to take a save or die roll&nbsp; less often by sacrificing henchmen, tapping everything with a 10 foot&nbsp; pole, and treating every flagstone and crack in the wall as a lethal&nbsp; threat... but no matter what you do&nbsp; the possibility exists that a&nbsp; character will die from bad luck.2) Given that 1 is true, then&nbsp; the more often you use save or die poisons and spells, the more likely&nbsp; you are going to fall victim to random fate.&nbsp; Therefore, if someone&nbsp; generally wants the PC's to survive longer to the end of a story arc, he&nbsp; will use fewer save or die spells or none at all.3) If you get&nbsp; into a situation where the characters are too damaged to continue, and&nbsp; you have a story type game where there is an ongoing story involving&nbsp; those characters, then you need to have a mechanic to overcome bad&nbsp; luck.&nbsp;&nbsp; 4e has healing surges, shaking off disability, and recharging&nbsp; spells/powers.&nbsp;&nbsp; AD&amp;D has a similar mechanic, only they recharge&nbsp; once a day.&nbsp;&nbsp; The mechanic for overcoming bad luck is called &quot;spells&quot;&nbsp; such as raise dead, remove curse, remove blindness, restoration,&nbsp; regenerate etc. etc.&nbsp; The only difference is that they recharge every&nbsp; day instead of every encounter.&nbsp; Why did they come up with these&nbsp; powers?&nbsp; Why did they come with magical items that store these powers?&nbsp;&nbsp; Why to keep on player their character of course, when a bad encounter&nbsp; hits you.&nbsp; Obviously the namby pamby storyteller DM's who want to undo&nbsp; bad rolls and keep on playing have been with the game a long time.Now&nbsp; you guys might like to play to a game where an overarching story arc&nbsp; isn't important.&nbsp; Fine, I'll agree that is a valid style of play.You&nbsp; might like to put years of work into a campaign and just simply toss it&nbsp; away from a bad couple of rolls with dice.&nbsp; Fine.&nbsp; I'll admit that some&nbsp; like killer dungeon crawls and loss of characters from random chance.You've&nbsp; memorized every bit of minutae from the rules for every counter to&nbsp; common save or die effects, and have learned several tricks to avoid&nbsp; taking save or die rolls except on rare occassions.&nbsp; Fine.&nbsp; I'll accept&nbsp; that you find that kind of 10-foot pole style of dungeon exploration&nbsp; part and parcel of how you play D&amp;D.But my 3 points that I have made are true as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 5610500, member: 55966"] Listen guys, I'm making these three claims. 1) Save or die means that the possibility is there that a character or even a party can be destroyed by a few bad rolls, regardless of how skilled you are. Sure you might be able to ensure that you have to take a save or die roll less often by sacrificing henchmen, tapping everything with a 10 foot pole, and treating every flagstone and crack in the wall as a lethal threat... but no matter what you do the possibility exists that a character will die from bad luck. 2) Given that 1 is true, then the more often you use save or die poisons and spells, the more likely you are going to fall victim to random fate. Therefore, if someone generally wants the PC's to survive longer to the end of a story arc, he will use fewer save or die spells or none at all. 3) If you get into a situation where the characters are too damaged to continue, and you have a story type game where there is an ongoing story involving those characters, then you need to have a mechanic to overcome bad luck. 4e has healing surges, shaking off disability, and recharging spells/powers. AD&D has a similar mechanic, only they recharge once a day. The mechanic for overcoming bad luck is called "spells" such as raise dead, remove curse, remove blindness, restoration, regenerate etc. etc. The only difference is that they recharge every day instead of every encounter. Why did they come up with these powers? Why did they come with magical items that store these powers? Why to keep on player their character of course, when a bad encounter hits you. Obviously the namby pamby storyteller DM's who want to undo bad rolls and keep on playing have been with the game a long time. Now you guys might like to play to a game where an overarching story arc isn't important. Fine, I'll agree that is a valid style of play. You might like to put years of work into a campaign and just simply toss it away from a bad couple of rolls with dice. Fine. I'll admit that some like killer dungeon crawls and loss of characters from random chance. You've memorized every bit of minutae from the rules for every counter to common save or die effects, and have learned several tricks to avoid taking save or die rolls except on rare occassions. Fine. I'll accept that you find that kind of 10-foot pole style of dungeon exploration part and parcel of how you play D&D. But my 3 points that I have made are true as well. [/QUOTE]

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