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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9798123" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm not denying the existence of players with complex aesthetics of play.  In fact, the existence of complex aesthetics of play was and remains one of my biggest attacks on GNS theory with its assumption that only one aesthetic can be fulfilled and they are in mutual competition to each other.  I'm merely providing simple examples and models for the purpose of establishing some basic facts with clarity.My point is that if you have a player with high priority on both Fantasy and Discovery, it's not necessarily the case that you deal with that by compromising the two aesthetics.  Not every two aesthetics can be easily fulfilled by going together was well as chocolate and peanut butter and making a blend of the two, nor is it necessarily the case that a compromise and going half-way actually makes that player the happiest.  You can have chocolate fudge and roasted brussel sprouts on the same buffet, and the player is fulfilled by going and getting big helpings of each on separate trips.  And the group itself can be thought of like that, with not everyone liking chocolate fudge and roasted brussel sprouts equally well, but they each might get something out of every course of the meal and each don't mind that not getting served their favorite right now because they know what they like is coming up soon.In short, claiming that I'm excluding the middle, is not a defense of the statement "I think attempting to hew too close to realism is going to be counterproductive to achieve the goal of finding ways to make hardship on expedition dramatic and fun gameplay." nor does claiming that I'm excluding the middle really address the argument I'm making here.  I have never asserted that the design must be either/or (an actual case of excluding the middle) anywhere.  All I have said is that realism is not necessarily counterproductive to "the goal of finding ways to make hardship on expedition dramatic and fun gameplay" and given logical reasons why I think that is so.</blockquote>

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